Official Raw discussion thread

[SAIYANS]

I'm not saying put all of them over. I'm saying put ONE of them over. CM Punk was one, but he gathered so much momentum in so little time that it was a no-brainer to run with that angle. But all I've seen is Cena beating people for a long time. Cena's vulnerable when Wade Barrett cheats his way into becoming Cena's master or Orton kicks his dad or Edge cashes in on him. But a guy like ADR, they've been pushing him like god, and still everybody and their dog knows Cena won't tap out to ADR at the PPV. It ends one of two ways:

1) Cena wins
2) ADR retains via interference, DQ, whatever. Go to 1.

It's like a Choose Your Own Adventure story that ends on the same page no matter what. BLOW IT UP ALREADY. Make Cena vulnerable again, for the sake of your product.

ADR failed at every big match he was in after his initial debut versus Rey and Christian. He got beat by Edge who admittedly had a foot out the door. He hasn't really been a hot heat magnet yet. And his finisher has been broken by Mysterio on a couple of occasions so it isn't plausible that Cena would just tap out to him. I mean Cena hasn't tapped in years, so is it really believable that he would tap out to an arm bar when he has dead lifted more weight than ADR in the past and encountered numerous other submission workers without tapping or quitting.

I get you saying the match has limited outcomes, but part of that is on ADR as well for still not establishing a secondary finisher that they could use to maybe give him a fluke win or capitalize off of a mistake like other wrestlers. It basically has to be a belt shot, count out, submission victory, or loss because of his move set

 

[PHX]

Oh hey.

So, this whole Triple H/CM Punk/Kevin Nash/John Laurinaitis thing isn't all that interesting, imo. The silver lining is Punk getting so much mic time, but they were already giving him that before this angle started. The "outspoken" side of Punk that they've been highlighting has been phenomenal. The fact that they've been letting him rip on Nash so hard is amazing.

Long time no see, lol.

Anyways the angle is very interesting imo because of the fact they have SOOO many ways to go with this therefore it is a very unpredictable angle. They also make more and more progress each week to make you want to tune in the next week to see where they go with it. Like the cliffhanger this time is what was Nash's real motive to lie about the text ordeal and if someone else is behind it. Now the aspect of if HHH loses he is no longer COO and if that happens how will he lose what will he do after, what will Punk do after etc. Not to mention the fact that this is the perfect way to keep someone who was hot as WWE champ in Punk still the hot main guy of the show without having the title.

Which brings me to the issue of Cena vs Del Rio that is the opposite of that. If Del Rio loses the title to Cena then the guy is pretty much back to the midcard and they have to build him back up again unless they are pull a Christian and keep having him loophole his way into rematches which is boring. As said by Sal unless they don't follow the format they have with Cena either way Del Rio is not gonna come out of this looking like he belongs which is why we can't have any credible heels. Imo they should have found a way to keep Cena out of the title picture until Del Rio got more est as someone who wouldn't just get run over by Cena.

 

[BreakTheWalls]

I suppose I should have held my tongue a bit seeing as it's been a while since I've been fully into WWE programming, but I'm trying my best to get back in the know. I realize that they have a lot of different directions they could go, and you're right that definitely makes it interesting, but the actual execution of the angle has been underwhelming to me. It's probably mostly Nash's fault now that I'm thinking about it. His mic work has been absolute shit.

 

[SAL]

ADR failed at every big match he was in after his initial debut versus Rey and Christian. He got beat by Edge who admittedly had a foot out the door. He hasn't really been a hot heat magnet yet. And his finisher has been broken by Mysterio on a couple of occasions so it isn't plausible that Cena would just tap out to him. I mean Cena hasn't tapped in years, so is it really believable that he would tap out to an arm bar when he has dead lifted more weight than ADR in the past and encountered numerous other submission workers without tapping or quitting.

I get you saying the match has limited outcomes, but part of that is on ADR as well for still not establishing a secondary finisher that they could use to maybe give him a fluke win or capitalize off of a mistake like other wrestlers. It basically has to be a belt shot, count out, submission victory, or loss because of his move set

.....ORRRRRRR they could set out to change your expectations and give you the impression that Cena might actually just lose. Clean. ADR doesn't need a secondary finisher, not if they get you to believe he COULD, not saying WILL, I'm saying COULD, beat Cena with the finisher he's been using all along. I mean, they're really latching on to the unpredictable aspect with CM Punk. But then again, since they've turned him face he's been like a cheap Cena clone in the ring, just another babyface running people over on TV.

Back to ADR, losing to Edge was evidence that he couldn't get heat? Again, chicken or egg? They chose not to put ADR over on the big stage when (a) he could have used the boost a lot more than Edge, and (b) the push ADR got to that point made it logical for him to win the title match.

 

[SAIYANS]

At the end of the day though does it matter how ADR comes out looking after this particular match? He will still have the gold and be heading into a place where he is a hero for a prolonged tour, and if he loses at the ppv it will only be to win the belt back at the very first Mexico tapings since Rey isn't there. Del Rio has been penciled in to fight Cena for a long time and Meltzer has said a program with him was part of his contract and promised to him in exchange for going to developmental, so there is very much so a monetary reason for Alberto and the company to have the program be worked. I doubt he cares if he doesn't look like Cena's equal because he is a guy who never looked like Misticos either on the other side of the border but happily cashed the check and worked his ass off alongside him because he gets that the other guy is THE GUY and he is the damn good hand who has a job to do to the best of his ability.

 

[PHX]

I suppose I should have held my tongue a bit seeing as it's been a while since I've been fully into WWE programming, but I'm trying my best to get back in the know. I realize that they have a lot of different directions they could go, and you're right that definitely makes it interesting, but the actual execution of the angle has been underwhelming to me. It's probably mostly Nash's fault now that I'm thinking about it. His mic work has been absolute shit.

Yeah can agree on that Nash is a much better mic worker than he has been displaying so far since he has came back. Part of that imo is two things. The fact that it's been a while since he has spoken on the big stage that is WWE compared to the company he was in. And 2 the fact that he is working against a guy who can and has flat out made an ass out of him at a snap of a finger. So when you are going back and fourth with a guy like Punk who pretty much has a witty response for anything you can say you're kinda fucked if you can't hang with him the way Cena and HHH can.

 

[PHX]

At the end of the day though does it matter how ADR comes out looking after this particular match? He will still have the gold and be heading into a place where he is a hero for a prolonged tour, and if he loses at the ppv it will only be to win the belt back at the very first Mexico tapings since Rey isn't there. Del Rio has been penciled in to fight Cena for a long time and Meltzer has said a program with him was part of his contract and promised to him in exchange for going to developmental, so there is very much so a monetary reason for Alberto and the company to have the program be worked. I doubt he cares if he doesn't look like Cena's equal because he is a guy who never looked like Misticos either on the other side of the border but happily cashed the check and worked his ass off.

It does matter because there is a good chance he could very easily lose the gold to Cena just like that and back to the midcard he goes. If he walks out champ in a way like DQ or whatnot the Cena is still gonna be on his ass for rematch after rematch until he gets the belt back and send the guy they have been building as the golden boy heel feuding with the likes of Morrison or something unless they found a way to keep him a main heel without the belt which I don't see them doing at this point the way it is headed.

Then again I didn't think the guy was ready for the main event anyways yet and it feels rushed.

 

[SAIYANS]

And yeah they maybe could have made it plausible for the arm bar to be looked at as a way to beat Cena, but they haven't. They have clearly established it as beign ADR over powering certain small guys and either snapping their arms or being on the verge of it, key thing being over powering them though, which is something no one believes he can do to Cena or any big guy in the company since he never has before

 

[PHX]

If they wanted to make it look believable that Cena could tap and make Del Rio look like a huge deal then in one of those attack segments he'd have him in the arm bar and have Cena tap during it which while it's not tapping during a match it be a huge deal to see Cena show some true weakness. Can't see them ever doing it though.

 

[Kiffy Lube]

I did like how Christian seemingly took Alberto Del Rio's advice with real no problem even after he destroyed his arm twice within the last year.

 

[BreakTheWalls]

No big deal. It was only his livelihood.

My DVR didn't record the last couple minutes of the show, but I just read the results and it sounds like I didn't miss much. Was the ending of the match with Dolph and Ziggler against Cena at least somewhat entertaining (wrestling wise)?

 

[PHX]

Should be as amazing as last time.

WWE is officially advertising a promo exchange between Triple H and C.M. Punk on tonight's Raw leading to their match at the Night of Champions PPV on Sunday. WWE's advertising reads:

"Just six days before Night of Champions, WWE COO Triple H and C.M. Punk have one more chance to say exactly what they feel in the middle of the ring, live tonight on WWE Raw Supershow."

 

[Crippler]

WWE champ with jobber entrance, poor Ricardo

 

[OMR]

del rio to open the show

 

[Dale]

Nice pendant Del Rio...