Lance Storm talks about Raws 15th

[Rell]

lmao how did I miss this thread

 

[Reinvented]

Kaedon and I have made up.....I think.

You guys missed all the action its to late now should have been here yesterday.

 

[This Guy]

Wait a second so I can't like Kelly Kelly? Because she is part of the WWE?

I loved the old ECW and everything it stood for WWF and WCW at that time stole everything from ECW. I know this for a fact if ECW had more money to expand the way TNA or WWE has they would still be around and be above everyone else.

I like Kelly Kelly and me having her picture proves nothing about my love for ECW.

The small group that loved ECW like myself where apart of sumthing great. I loved ECW when they had to wrestle in boxing rings and when they finally got on Hardcore T.V and even when they went to TNN.

You know nothing of ECW so I wouldn't expect a fan of the Hurricane to understand.

ECW came from nothing and now is in the history of wrestling. Starting The Flaming tables, Giving all the legends and stars of today there 1st shot, Giving the world a Taipei match, The most gruesome Barbed Wire Match.

You my friend don't know ECW and you never will.

Did I say you couldn't like Kelly Kelly? No, I said that for someone who claims to love the original ECW I find it funny that you support the WWE version as most ECW loyalists would not. That was my point.

WWF & WCW stole everything?? someone's been drinking the kool-aid

I don't know ECW? What gave you that impression, I look at what you just said and its obvious to me that you don't know as much as you think you know. ECW didn't start with the flaming tables. And if they had had more money they just would have stayed in business longer...the company was doomed for failure on the model of flaming tables and hardcore wrestling that you beleive was ECW's begingings. ECW's beginings was with actual wrestling. With wrestlers that were technically sound and put on wrestling matches. Guys like 2 Cold Scorpio, Shane Douglas, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko & Eddie Guerrero. This was the foundation of what ECW, Eastern Championship Wrestling was founded. It evolved to the Extreme Championship Wrestling out of trying to be different, and as has been often proven in history being different is not always better. ECW drew small crowds. loyal yes. but nothing that would have ever kept them above water the with the way they tried to expand to a national then world wide promotion. More money they would still be gone even today....they just would have lasted longer then they did...unless they made a major change, one that most likely the hardcore/loyal fans would have hated and walked away.

Taipei match? They gave that to no one...you think its a great match? How come no major promotion (ie. WWE, WCW, TNA) has ever used it if it was so great? Because it was retarted Garbage Wrestling.....now don't mis understand what I'm saying. For the most part I do not believe that the orignal ECW that most would have called garbage wrestling really was garbage. But anything that is just sheer for blood and gore, thats garbage.

As for the Legends of wrestling that got there start, yeah your right about that...But they were there long before all the hardcore action went full force. You see you seem to not understand about your precious Original ECW. The Original ECW as you describe it, the Heyman era or ECW, with flaming tables and New Jack jumping off the balcony etc. That was ECW's height of popularity....and it failed. Because that type of action works best in moderation. Every match you get bored of it.. Its just like when people complain that TNA does gimmick matches to death. Gimmick matches work better in Moderation. The last Ultimate X match was billed as the return of the Ultimate X...yet 2 PPV's/months earlier they had an Ultimate X match on that. TNA has done more Ultimate X matches in its short run as company, then any other type of specialty match anywhere. And truth be told the Ultimate X isn't as exciting and cool as it once was. Even hardcore TNA fans make fun of it saying I can't wait till the belt or the X falls. (which it almost always does) ECW was worse, giving you the same hardcore fights match in and match out every night. In the end it put them out of buisness because they weren't making money. So tell me how oh how was more money going to allow them to expand? If you aren't making money as a small level, your not going to make money at a large scale level either, unless you change something.

Face facts, Original ECW was doomed to fail. The loyal Hardcore fans were not enough, and never would have been enough to keep them alive, no matter how much money Heyman had. I bet Todd Gordon was laughing his ass off when he saw Heyman struggle without him to pay the bills.

 

[Reinvented]

I stated The "Hardcore" aspect more because I assumed you knew nothing of ECW.

I know that the best in ring work was not garbage wrestling but was guys like Pitbull # 2 and Lionheart, Shane Douglas, 2 Cool Scropio, even later on when the flaming tables where brought in wrestling was skill key. Tazz and Shane had wars in the ring and not so much tables and chairs but submission moves. At the end it even had good wrestling Mike Awesome(sellout) still but on shows with Tazz. Even when they where at TNN and CW Anderson had matchs with Dreamer where well rounded. Tajiri and Super Crazy and Little Guido also where about wrestling.

Even at the start guys like Mysterios and Pycosis had good wrestling matchs.

I loved ECW because as fans we got everything we wanted from a wresltling show. We got weapons and good all around wrestling.

I understood Hardcore as all the other ECW fans saw it as watching 30 mins of actual wrestling with Eddie, Jericho, Benoit. Flaming Tables and tacks where just the icing on the cake.

I like Kelly Kelly not the fact she's on this gay ECW but I just like Kelly Kelly.

If you haven't seen Chris Jericho vs Pitbull #2 vs 2 cool scorpio vs Shane Douglas for the T.V title go watch that if you want ECW wrestling.

 

[Rell]

I agree. I've made the fact that loved the original ECW pretty much known. It was revolutionary because it brought something new to professional wrestling. At the time, Wrestling was more children orientated. America was at a rebellious stage in a sense; ECW was like a breath of fresh air. There were few promotions in America that were based on Hardcore wrestling at the time. With the success of FMW in Japan, Paul thought he could mirror that success with ECW, and I believe he did a pretty good job early on. Due to many things, including the lack of a secure television deal, money, and talent, ECW folded. I would much rather watch the original ECW as oppose to the watered down product we’ve been receiving. I don’t even call it ECW; I call it Tuesday Night Heat, because in reality, we all know ECW is treated as a secondary show.

So all in all, there is no correct answer as to which ECW version is superior. Everyone has his or her own preferences. Some will say the original ECW; some will say the new ECW, but I think we would all agree on the fact that the products are very different.

Edit: Holy shit, this is my first "real" post in a while...

 

[Reinvented]

I love you even more now Rell. *Cries*ECW ECW ECW*Cries*

 

[This Guy]

I stated The "Hardcore" aspect more because I assumed you knew nothing of ECW.

I know that the best in ring work was not garbage wrestling but was guys like Pitbull # 2 and Lionheart, Shane Douglas, 2 Cool Scropio, even later on when the flaming tables where brought in wrestling was skill key. Tazz and Shane had wars in the ring and not so much tables and chairs but submission moves. At the end it even had good wrestling Mike Awesome(sellout) still but on shows with Tazz. Even when they where at TNN and CW Anderson had matchs with Dreamer where well rounded. Tajiri and Super Crazy and Little Guido also where about wrestling.

Even at the start guys like Mysterios and Pycosis had good wrestling matchs.

I loved ECW because as fans we got everything we wanted from a wresltling show. We got weapons and good all around wrestling.

I understood Hardcore as all the other ECW fans saw it as watching 30 mins of actual wrestling with Eddie, Jericho, Benoit. Flaming Tables and tacks where just the icing on the cake.

I like Kelly Kelly not the fact she's on this gay ECW but I just like Kelly Kelly.

If you haven't seen Chris Jericho vs Pitbull #2 vs 2 cool scorpio vs Shane Douglas for the T.V title go watch that if you want ECW wrestling.

seen it a million times.

anyways, the point of this whole thing was that I am not arguing that ECW didn't offer something different. I'm not saying it had its eras of well roundedness. And yes even in the strictly hardcore days, they would suprise there fans with an actual wrestling match on occasion. But to say it was better then the WWE is a joke. Yes there were things that hurt ECW, TNN definatly did there fair share the fuck them over. And ECW did have some great angles. (The Network using TNN against thme when they realized TNN was screwing them was one of my favourites), but regaurdless of that Paul Heyman was not a good buisness man. He's good creatively, but he needs a backer or he'd run himself into the ground trying to wear too many hats. ECW ran itself into the ground, and thats a fact with or without setbacks it would have happened, it would just be a matter of time.

As Rell said, everyone has there prefrence. I also do not believe that the current ECW is a great show. I do believe its a decent show. It is booked with a WWE style, but has a bit of a different feel (though that feel is starting to get a little lost right now) by not featuring as many as the long standing WWE big names. I've said it before, anyone who thought that the current ECW was going to be like the original and bitch that it isn't were idiots to ever believe that it would be. Vince likes the history of ECW to promote his ECW, but beyond that he knew that the original ECW was a losing formula...why would he ever present that same formula again?

Edit: Holy shit, this is my first "real" post in a while...

Are you feeling ok? lol

 

[Reinvented]

I never really thought the new ECW would be like the old.

For me ECW the real ECW was the best company ever. WWE might have won the War over all but for those that recall ECW the true diehards we will always saw ECW was the best.

 

[This Guy]

That I do not disagree with, I'm sure they do feel that way...but again, they are in the minority. Thats why it failed. Thats why it was a failed formula, and thats why we are not likely to see any promotion like it grow to national recognition like it again.

I wonder, how many people stopped watching wrestling all together back in 2001 when WWE bought WCW & ECW went under, and now flip through there TV guide in late 2007 and see ECW Wrestling listed and think OMG ECW back on the air, or classic ECW episodes, just to see ECW branded WWE?