Kobashi retires

[seabs]

See the post above then, also you're looking for the WWE essentially I'm guessing from a production standpoint. DG : USA is probably the best wrestling currently in North America when stories are concerned.

Chikara is nothing like SMS either beyond it has gimmicks (something I think most will agree is missing in the modern WWE and TNA), the wrestling is a lot better and the entire ethos of the program is different, you'd never have got the emotion of the Kingston story in a SMS episode for example.

 

[Crayo]

In terms of lighting, camera angles, and any other stuff like that, production doesn't interest me. In actual storylines though, it does. In WWE we have Brock tearing HHH's office apart, we have The Shield dominating both shows, we have heel Ryback against cliche Cena, we have a rejuvenated Antonio Cesaro, we have Ziggler doing his best to hold onto the belt. Stories. RoH doesn't provide that for me (who the fuck wants to see Matt Hardy?). Chikara is, let's just say, not what I am looking for.

I wouldn't want a monthly show either, but none of those sound particularly amazing either Stopspot. I know I haven't seen it, but first impressions from what you are saying are pretty low. I can give it a try, but a monthly show isn't an alternative to WWE/TNA imo.

So what can these complainers watch? So far, I'm yet to see anything. Maybe their complaining is completely fair.

 

[Pop Tatari]

Some people are never happy,they just want their opinion heard.No indy promotion is going to do the storylines that you want as they have different fanbase made up of hardcore fans who are more interested in the matches themselves.

 

[Crayo]

That's my point. Without the raw urge to watch fantastic wrestling, moaning at WWE/TNA is all some people have. There isn't much competition out there at all. All this "if you're not happy, go check out Japan or elsewhere" is pretty flawed if you watch wrestling for other reasons.

 

[seabs]

Right so you're taking what's good about the WWE, in the example we were talking about someone who enjoys nothing of the show correct? So why would they find those stories interesting? Also you've put a very optimistic spin on those stories for quality, Ziggler has barely been featured, Brock and H has been 90% dull with a few good moments, Cesaro is solid but can you say it's more entertaining than Steen taking on SCUM? I honestly can't. Heel Ryback has been a bust too IMHO, The Shield is arguably the most entertaining story the E has to offer but in the overall gist of things it isn't that great, 3 guys jumping everyone is the same thing they've done since day one and what SCUM was doing before they were formed. As for your ROH comment about Hardy, who wants to see Cena do the same shit again from a smark perspective? It doesn't stop you tuning into Raw does it?

These complainers as outlined above can watch ROH for a weekly show (just because it doesn't interest you, someone who seems to enjoy the WWE product immensely doesn't mean it won't interest others who are uninterested in the WWE model), the monthly format again may be something a none interested WWE guy may be interested in once again just because you don't justify it as an alternative doesn't mean others don't. Just because you expect wrestling weekly doesn't mean it's the only entertaining solution for an alternative.

You're making these statements as someone who doesn't fit the criteria, you still enjoy the WWE so why would you find the alternatives interesting? You're not wanting to break out of the WWE philosophy as you still enjoy it. TNA isn't even as must see to you as Raw seems to be in though you regularly admit it's the better show on average, some have even accused you of being a WWE mark and a TNA hater, now whilst I find that ludicrous it's an indication of your preference between the two. Only when you're truly disengaged with the product will you find the alternatives to be more viable as a primary entertainment source.

 

[seabs]

That's my point. Without the raw urge to watch fantastic wrestling, moaning at WWE/TNA is all some people have. There isn't much competition out there at all. All this "if you're not happy, go check out Japan or elsewhere" is pretty flawed if you watch wrestling for other reasons.

Despite better stories being present else where, the problem isn't the theory it's picking flaws with it because it isn't WWE.

Well you have this one which shows once a month - WWE does shows every week.
Well you have this one but it's held in a gym - WWE does it in big arenas

(both issues people have raised before not you I don't think but still)

I want great stories - you can see X,Y and Z but they don't do what the WWE does so I can't watch them.

 

[Pop Tatari]

Maybe we should do a separate thread for this it has nothing to do with Kobashi now lol.

 

[Crayo]

Dude you're missing the point. Whether I like the stories or not, WWE is centered around them. I don't see any other company (other than TNA) that does the same. If you're not a flat out wrestling mark who can watch wrestling matches just for match quality, then what else is there? Also, your point makes no sense. I have to hate WWE to appreciate the competition? That's like saying I can't appreciate football if United isn't playing. That's ludicrous.

Your point about others liking RoH is right, they might do, but from what I can see, RoH is something that has a lot of negative feedback around it, like there is WWE. Looks like I'm not alone there. Sure it might produce SOME good storylines, but is that good enough to ditch WWE, or watch it alongside it? That's subjective, but in my opinion, it's not what I am looking for. Some people might like the monthly shows yeah, but if you're interested enough and passionate enough to look for other sources of wrestling entertainment, then a monthly show might not be enough.

 

[Crayo]

This is going way too far and I really cba to read another long reply. My point is, if you're not in for mat wrestling, then the storylines are not incredible in the independent scene either. You're pretty much stuck with TNA or WWE, which gives complainers the right to complain. That's all.

I

 

[Testify]

Kobashi is the one that really got me into watching and following Japanese wrestling (along with Misawa and Takayama), tbh, and I'm sad to witness his retirement.

It's a shame NOAH is now pretty much dead (again) because they have no stars whatsoever and KENTA as your top dog is just laughable.

 

[Stopspot]

Kobashi is the one that really got me into watching and following Japanese wrestling (along with Misawa and Takayama), tbh, and I'm sad to witness his retirement.

It's a shame NOAH is now pretty much dead (again) because they have no stars whatsoever and KENTA as your top dog is just laughable.

Doesn't NOAH have a couple of partnerships going with other promotions? I know Yaru toru is working for both NOAH and NJPW and ROH and NOAH seem to be in good standing. They could theoretically borrow some up and commer guy from say NJPW (Hello Naito you injured little Asian), send him to NOAH for a while for seasoning before sending him back to NJPW for a big push. In essence it would make NOAH NJPW's bitch but it is better than being stuck treading water.

 

[Nano]

This man was really a great wrestler, I'll miss him in the ring :sad:

 

[Stopspot]

Here's the match btw.

 

[Stopspot]

Partnerships mean shit if you don't have your own prospects and legit stars, and NOAH lacks both unfortunately. They had Shiozaki, but even he took off for AJPW.

I hope better days will come for the company though.

Seems like the company needs to sit down, develop a new identity or find their old one again and look at how they could build some new top stars and have them stay. Sadly I think that is the sad part of being the third biggest promotion. If you have guys that gain traction then the other two companies above you are going to look to pick them up. Look at how ROH is raided every now and again by WWE and TNA.

 

[Bort]

So glad to see Kobashi left on a high note. Thank God he didn't end up like poor Misawa-san. Damn good final match for 'Bashi, spectacular. But this is not the end of an era, not yet. It will be once Akira Taue retires in December.

Kobashi was a fantastic wrestler. Like, seriously fantastic. Not only he worked a high-level physical style, but he was also one charismatic son of a gun, one of the greatest main event underdogs in pro-graps history. His facial expressions were unparalleled, they were great storytelling tools. Arguably the greatest collection of ****+ matches too. Classic after classic after classic. But also, he is one of the biggest draws in pro-wrestling history, he was the part of the crew that was sold out Budokan almost 60 times in a row back in the 90s, he was doing it almost single-handedly in NOAH too. He brought NOAH to the Tokyo Dome. His GHC title reign was the best in the lst decade, and brought numerous sellouts and big ratings on Japans largest network. Kobashi was bigger than life. And still is. Just look at the names that showed up for his retirement. Can't be happier for Kobashi, and that was a great way to say goodbye.