JR's 1996 Heel Turn great idea right?

[Keith]

Thought I'd bring this up as in another thread someone said it was a dumb idea, and I disagree.

To start with if you include his run in the NWA/WCW Ross had been playing the same clean cut face communtar for the best part of a decade. Also with Vince still broadcasting at the time and very much the lead face behind the desk, it made sense from that point of view.

For me it gave JR a new freshness and enegy, and he really excelled in the role, adding something different to the product too. The stuff with the fake Razor and Diesel was dumb, but outside of that this was a very productive switch and I never got why WWF put a stop to it just as it was getting hot.

Now JR's 99 heel turn that was dumb!

 

[Kiffy Lube]

I don't think it was overall great or handled well especially with his alignment with those FAKE guys but there are moments when he is on commentary that are just hilarious during that run. Knowing it's J.R. saying the stuff makes it even better. I really enjoyed it during this match and just the way he treats McMahon.

[video=youtube;g-zXhX-vAJE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-zXhX-vAJE[/video]

I guess it only has that part of the match on YT but I'm sure most actual wrestling fans have seen that entire event.

 

[Deezy]

This was stupid.

First off, it made a guy who genuinely loved and respected the business to break kayfabe and cut promos that confused about 95% of the audience who weren't reading dirtsheets or even Apter mags. And it made listening to the shows very distracting from the product we were supposed to be viewing. This was the complaint about Michael Cole a year ago, and this was the exact same thing.

Secondly, it's main thing was to introduce lame duck characters and failed miserably.

Thirdly, if he was supposed to be heel, why act like it was him against the system? That isn't a heelish thing to do, especially when you had the juxtaposition of Austin doing the exact same thing.

It was stupid.

 

[Chris]

His '99 one was way better than this.

 

[Crippler]

[video=youtube;g0aCa5o00yg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0aCa5o00yg[/video]

this guy.

 

[Dale]

I'm watching the 99 shows on a daily basis and i've just finished WrestleMania and I gotta admit I'm finding JR absolutely hilarious. Having his own commentary desk built THROUGHOUT the show, watching the show from a frat house I think it was and taking over the Spanish announce team all gave me a good laugh.

 

[Deezy]

From the 99 perspective, it was made very clear that JR hated this gimmick, when a performer isn't into the shit he is doing on TV it is very obvious, I also remember not liking these JR moments, because there was too much sympathy for him, because of his Bells Palsy and the fact that everyone agreed that Michael Cole can't fill his shoes and the company treats him like shit.

I wasn't a fan, because again, heel announcers take too muich away from the TV product, there main job is to get this shit we are watching over. Not taking attention away from the product and onto the voice over. It just buries your product more than anything.

 

[We Are Legion]

Some guys just shouldn't be heels and JR was one of them. It just seemed like it was something that was done for the sake of "why not?", probably creative desperation considering how badly WWE was getting fucked by WCW at the time and I'm not even sure if Fake Razor and Fake Diesel were the main reason for it. They could have had anyone introduce those two and King would have made more sense and fans would have understood it more than JR spouting dirt sheet crap in 1996 and just turning heel out of the blue.

That's not to say I didn't think it was hilarious when I finally watched it, but I saw it so long after it actually happened and I was actually aware of JR's past history with the company being an IWC member obviously. It's easy for people today to look back on it and see wasted potential in the angle, but that wasn't a good time for it and JR wasn't nearly as loved or have the same reputation then that he does now. I doubt it was funny to even the few internet fans WWE had during that time considering it made most of those fans feel like they had already missed a major part of that story, which they had.

Now if you want to discuss the wasted potential in the Fake Razor and Fake Diesel angle, that's another story. That's something WWE could have done better and actually had success with if you ask me. JR shouldn't have been their backbone though.

 

[The Cork]

Havent seen the stuff from 1999 but it makes no sense to turn a play-by-play guy heel, the color guy is meant to be the one with the character.

 

[Keith]

This was stupid.

First off, it made a guy who genuinely loved and respected the business to break kayfabe and cut promos that confused about 95% of the audience who weren't reading dirtsheets or even Apter mags. And it made listening to the shows very distracting from the product we were supposed to be viewing. This was the complaint about Michael Cole a year ago, and this was the exact same thing.

Secondly, it's main thing was to introduce lame duck characters and failed miserably.

Thirdly, if he was supposed to be heel, why act like it was him against the system? That isn't a heelish thing to do, especially when you had the juxtaposition of Austin doing the exact same thing. It was stupid.

1. But that is kind of the way wrestling was starting to go anyway, besides I don't think what he was talking about was actually too complicated than the fans wouldn't be able to figure it out, it was just something different which at the time the product needed.

2. Disagree here, in 96 it was more of a heel thing to do to fight the system, good and bad were more black and white then, things changed when you got more anti-heroes and shades of grey (and no that is not a soft porn reference!).

The 99 heel change was horrible, because it made light of his serious health issues, and was insulting to southern people as well as old school wrestling.

 

[We Are Legion]

2. Disagree here, in 96 it was more of a heel thing to do to fight the system, good and bad were more black and white then, things changed when you got more anti-heroes and shades of grey (and no that is not a soft porn reference!).

Oh please. Razor Ramon was fighting the system in WWE and being loved for it when Steve Austin was barely out of the USWA and the Horsemen were doing it in the 80's. That is completely false. Anti-heroes were hardly anything new in 1996.

 

[Deezy]

People have been loving anti-heroes since the days of Superstar Graham. Black and white my ass, 96 was also when the nWo were riding high as anti-heroes.

Anyways, it was still fucking stupid for JR to go heel, it was a distraction on commentary, and it didn't lead to anything. What is the purpose of angles if not to lead somewhere? Was JR going to be a manager? No. Was he going to wrestle a match against Vince? No...So what the fuck was the point of this? Nothing..So it was a terrible move.

 

[Keith]

People have been loving anti-heroes since the days of Superstar Graham. Black and white my ass, 96 was also when the nWo were riding high as anti-heroes.

Anyways, it was still fucking stupid for JR to go heel, it was a distraction on commentary, and it didn't lead to anything. What is the purpose of angles if not to lead somewhere? Was JR going to be a manager? No. Was he going to wrestle a match against Vince? No...So what the fuck was the point of this? Nothing..So it was a terrible move.

Not having this anti-hero thing, as far as WWF was concerned the product at that point was still very cartoonish, or at least an old school good vs. evil morality play, things were starting to change with the Austin character, but he wasn't quite there yet at that point. Also the Houseman are a bad example of anti-heroes they were never intended to be that, it is just that they happened to catch on with a certain kind of male audience, it was not by design.

Deezy you've just backed up my point, because the problem was that WWF didn't follow through with anything, the JR heel turn was gathering pace when they just cut it short. Whose to say he would not have become a manager of a full-time heel stable if they had not dropped it?

 

[Deezy]

Austin was getting very over by Summerslam 96 when he was still curtain jerking at the show. Moot point on anti-heroes, because that is just proof of the matter,

And JR's heel turn not leading to anythig is simple, he wasn't meant to do anything more than play a character he hated, because Jim Ross was a proverbial whipping boy for a long time, because the company higher ups like to turn the heat up on people before Vince respects them and give them more duties, like saaaaay a Talent Relations position, the head play by play he was given a year later.

I thought it was common knowledge that McMahon is a weird cat.

 

[Keith]

^ But you don't know it was never going anyway thats just you specluating, besides this is one time where the company were giving Ross something good to do so from that I don't see how they were damaging him. Don't forget he got to send McMahon up on air.