How big of a problem is it that Mania has become Legends Day?

[Senhor Perfect]

How do you build Ambrose into a mega-star then, Orton? :haha:

Meaningful feuds against guys like Sheamus and Show with him going over strong. Then culminating into a feud with Cena; wherein he loses at first, but finally gets his win at WM for the most impact.

 

[Crayo]

WWE do actually know how to make stars though. I know people will say "Who will replace Cena?", and that's a million dollar question, but they do know how to make stars imo. Punk was a midcarder who had no momentum and has a horrible look for a main eventer in WWE, and they managed to turn him into a big draw. They have the talent on their roster believe it or not, and they do have some monkey in the back who does know how to build some decent storylines (Nexus, Summer of Punk etc), but Vince likes to ruin them after a while.

The point is, it's not all doom and gloom imo. I'm as mad as the rest of you about the legends getting the top spot and have ranted about it on here numerous times, but it's business, and it's understandable in that sense.

 

[Roi]

Its a shame the fact that the shield victory will be overshadowed by orton's heel turn

 

[Crayo]

Meaningful feuds against guys like Sheamus and Show with him going over strong. Then culminating into a feud with Cena; wherein he loses at first, but finally gets his win at WM for the most impact.

In my hypothetical scenario Cena had gone, and going over Sheamus and Big Show does not turn him into a mega-star. The only opponent who would is Cena. Ambrose going over Cena would be huge, but anyone going over Cena would be huge because WWE have built him as a huge star, but no one else around him is one anymore. Without Rock, Brock, Cena, Taker or HHH, who would Ambrose go over to take their place?

 

[Senhor Perfect]

In my hypothetical scenario Cena had gone, and going over Sheamus and Big Show does not turn him into a mega-star. The only opponent who would is Cena. Ambrose going over Cena would be huge, but anyone going over Cena would be huge because WWE have built him as a huge star, but no one else around him is one anymore. Without Rock, Brock, Cena, Taker or HHH, who would Ambrose go over to take their place?

My point is he can't go for Cena straight away. They need to build the new generation of main eventers properly to avoid another Sheamus/Ryback scenario. Having an Ambrose/Ohno beat Sheamus/Show etc builds credibility in their respective characters. Gives them an aura that they can beat anyone.

 

[Crayo]

My point is he can't go for Cena straight away. They need to build the new generation of main eventers properly to avoid another Sheamus/Ryback scenario. Having an Ambrose/Ohno beat Sheamus/Show etc builds credibility in their respective characters. Gives them an aura that they can beat anyone.

I know, I think you missed my point. Beating those guys makes them credible and then when they beat the big guys they become big guys themselves, but who would be the big guy for him to beat if there is none around? Beating those names above doesn't make him the big guy, it just makes him a top guy.

I'm not saying perople need to jump on the big guys first to get over. I'm saying without the stars that WWE possess now (Rock, Brock, Taker, Cena, HHH) they would be out of ideas on how to create more.

 

[Senhor Perfect]

I know, I think you missed my point. Beating those guys makes them credible and then when they beat the big guys they become big guys themselves, but who would be the big guy for him to beat if there is none around? Beating those names above doesn't make him the big guy, it just makes him a top guy.

I'm not saying perople need to jump on the big guys first to get over. I'm saying without the stars that WWE possess now (Rock, Brock, Taker, Cena, HHH) they would be out of ideas on how to create more.

It all comes down to character development then. No one cared about the Ringmaster, but as soon as he became SC everything changed. If the characters are well developed and are an extension of the talent's real personality, they will succeed. Take Goldberg for example, he didn't beat anyone worthwhile until 2-3 months after his debut, but was incredibly over. Having Ambrose really let loose with his Joker-esque character in some twisted promos and angles will get him over enough that he can be a top dog without having to go over someone with name recognition. Instead of throwing in inane characters like Funkasaurus and Fandango, they should focus on characters like Wyatt.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

Has there been any other era in WWF/E history that has relied on past stars to sell the show as much as the current one? Even the one guy they rely on the most who isn't a part timer has been the top star of the company for the past eight years.

That's why I compared this point in time to the era just before the "WWE collapse' of the mid 90s if you will.

You had WWF still clutching to Hulkamania before he bounced for WCW, guys like Roddy Piper, Andre the Giant, Jimmy Snuka, and even Savage had seen there star begin to dim, and even though you had young talent like Perfect, HBK, Hart they weren't being made into stars by the old guard. It took a once in a lifetime angle with the NWO to break wrestling from the slump that resulted from that situation.

If you look to any other era it was never the case where the previous generation was put on such a pedestal over the current generation. I can recall during the Attitude Era the Road Warriors in the tag team division; they were champs, but eventually they dropped the belts to the NAO. They weren't forever held in higher regard just because they were legends.

Instead of properly using the Undertakers and Lesnars of the world to make new stars, they are used to hog the spotlight and halt the pushes of the new generation.

How are we as fans supposed to take Ziggler, Rhodes, Barrett, ect seriously when WWE just pushes them aside during the important time of year? Well, the answer is nobody takes them seriously

 

[RoyalRaven]

Remember when Wrestlemania was the day that legends were created? Now it is the day that Legends return to hold down the main roster.

I'm not here to shit on Taker, HHH, Rocky, Brocky, or any of the legends. They are awesome and I want to see them perform.

So D'Z, what's the problem? You like the legends, I like the legends, we all like the legends! But how long can WWE sustain this? How long until the neglect they've shown towards building new stars catches up to them? They only have another Mania or two, three at the most, to dust of Taker's old ass. And once he's gone what do they have to show for it? We all assume Cena beats the streak, so then what? WWE has invested the last 5 years of hyping the streak to give a rub to... Cena :neymar2:

Rock/Cena- nobody on the roster benefited

HHH/Brock- nobody on the roster benefits

So as fans we are basically being told that nobody else on the roster matters. because this is Mania season, the time that new stars used to be born, but instead of birthing new stars now we just get the old ones dusted off.

This line of thinking can only last for so long. Will WWE finally pull their heads out of their ass and realize they need OLD STAR vs NEW WRESTLER INTERACTION or we will be looking at a future with no real options to carry a brand?

We are on a fast track to 1995 all over again. I only hope the WWE's popularity falls as far as it did back then, because something has to give.

100% true, can't really add anything else as it's obvious even to me, you'd put over new stars rather than drag out the old ones still winning.

It's as bad as when, Flair beat up Cesaro, I mean really an old man beating the US champ for Nayru's sake.

 

[Leo C]

Yeah, it's pretty simple, they rely on their old guys for quick cash on buyrates today but don't build new stars with them. If they actually get off their asses and do it, great, you have lots of stars rightfully created for the future, but if you don't, Rock, Brock, HHH and Taker are all gone and you're left with Cena. That's a big problem.

 

[Rysenberg]

This one pisses me off especially. I understand having all the big stars facing off at 30, but why not use 29 as an opportunity to create these new stars? There were two very obvious matches for me that WWE would never have had the brains or the balls to pull off. Ambrose/Undertaker would be the main one; It's a match that pretty much writes itself IMO. Ambrose's psychotics, attempting to play mind games with the master of them would be brilliant. Yeah, the Shield is great and all, but there's no reason why Ambrose couldn't have gone over an older guy post-'Mania last year(#ThanksMick), and then dominate the midcard seen for a while before moving onto this. The second match is D-Bry/Brock. About every smark and their fucking dog can see this match is money. No guy in the 'E is better at wrestling as the underdog than Bryan, and with Brock's amazing ability to get heat this fued could get over as hell.

There's no reason why these matches couldn't take place this year. Brock and Taker would both go over so no harm to their credibility, Bryan and Ambrose look like stars for being able to hang with them. It's just this lazy, short-term view than 'E seems to have with everything. Yeah, the buyrates will take a slight hit, but you could quite easily create guys who are gonna make you money for years?

 

[BaraaKhalaf92]

It's a good thing and it's a bad thing in the same time, it's good for the short term but isn't for the long run.
It's great to see legends clashing at WM, Rock, Brock, HHH, Taker, no one can deny how great it is to see them in the ring, it also brings money to the company (which is the most important thing that Vince thinks about).
But in the same time, it's horrible and it proves that WWE doesn't have faith in their own talents to let them main event its biggest show of the year, and it has its negative effects on the superstars who work their ass off for an entire year only to get overshadowed by guys who don't even wrestle full-time.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

It's a good thing and it's a bad thing in the same time, it's good for the short term but isn't for the long run.
It's great to see legends clashing at WM, Rock, Brock, HHH, Taker, no one can deny how great it is to see them in the ring, it also brings money to the company (which is the most important thing that Vince thinks about).
But in the same time, it's horrible and it proves that WWE doesn't have faith in their own talents to let them main event its biggest show of the year, and it has its negative effects on the superstars who work their ass off for an entire year only to get overshadowed by guys who don't even wrestle full-time.

I think a lot of people can and have complained that it's not that special to see Rock/Cena II or Brock/HHH II at Mania ashley