Greatest 21st Century Wrestler - 1st Round C - Roman Reigns vs. Zack Sabre Jr.

[Death By Looch]

FIRST ROUND - BLOCK C

#15 Roman Reigns
VS
#50 Zack Sabre Jr.

Who enters Round 2?
You decide!

Voting is open for at least 7 days
(October 24th)​

 

[Keith]

Roman has come along way. But I'm voting Zack.

 

[Comrade Khan]

easily Zack for me, full package without any of the mega pushes Roman got

 

[Chris]

Well I hate this round, but I'm going Zack simply bc Roman probably has higher positives but def had negative years where I've liked Zack since I first saw that skinny dick in like 2011 and he's never disappointed me, and only gotten better.

Their paths are weird mirrors too, management was always behind Roman but he had to win over the fans (well he had them at first but then his pushes made him lose them) while Zack mostly always had the fans even in Japan but it took a decade to win over management. Very big successes in both cases looking back now

 

[Comrade Khan]

If Roman was this character the whole time I'd be willing to vote him in more but man to me there's still like over half his run that was hot garbage

 

[Chris]

If Roman was this character the whole time I'd be willing to vote him in more but man to me there's still like over half his run that was hot garbage

I didn't hate super Roman as much as most, the worst stuff I did but my biggest issues where I finally gave up was actually when he couldn't fucking beat Brock, I was begging them to give Roman a title and they wouldn't so that's a fun dynamic

And to make matters worse he did finally beat Brock at SummerSlam that year 6 months too late and he had to vacant soon after bc that's when his cancer came back. They obviously had no idea of knowing that but it makes it so much worse in hindsight that he didn't just win at Mania that year. And then his return after the shield stuff was the trash feuds with Corbin and Jinder before he turned heel

So yeah my actual lowest points of Roman's career was after the mega pushes, but they still weirdly saw him as their main start while jobbing him out or having him in trash mid card feuds after he's beaten cancer

 

[Comrade Khan]

I didn't hate super Roman as much as most, the worst stuff I did but my biggest issues where I finally gave up was actually when he couldn't fucking beat Brock, I was begging them to give Roman a title and they wouldn't so that's a fun dynamic

And to make matters worse he did finally beat Brock at SummerSlam that year 6 months too late and he had to vacant soon after bc that's when his cancer came back. They obviously had no idea of knowing that but it makes it so much worse in hindsight that he didn't just win at Mania that year. And then his return after the shield stuff was the trash feuds with Corbin and Jinder before he turned heel

So yeah my actual lowest points of Roman's career was after the mega pushes, but they still weirdly saw him as their main start while jobbing him out or having him in trash mid card feuds after he's beaten cancer

well the big thing for me, outside the nauseating push, was that he just...was not that good at anything beyond DA LOOK. His promos were not good most of the time unless the angle got him over (beating taker). his in ring, imo, was abysmal. it was worse than Cena's peak 5 moves of doom era (idk how true this is i didnt really watch cena much but its a funny point for this argument so I am leaving it). Superman punch, drive by, spear. and punches. that was it.

Heck to be honest I still think he is below average talent in ring for today's standards, but obviously that's more personal taste since I do not enjoy his style + the talking whatsoever.

Back to Zack. He is the closest we will get to UK Danielson.

 

[Chris]

See I don't even disagree but I just think they hid those weakness for his push most of the time bc he was either wrestling great guys who could carry him or if he wasn't it was gimmicked up like the Strowman feud and those were actually the best bc you weren't mad he was beating this great talent lol

Probs my biggest issue with that era was the ignoring of the crowd. I didn't care that I didn't even necessary agree with them on Roman, it hurts my enjoyment anyway when a company is constantly fighting the crowds thoughts, it's like a "customer is always right" thing. Yeah I think some crowds suck but you still gotta play to them or your whole show sucks bc of them lol

 

[Comrade Khan]

See I don't even disagree but I just think they hid those weakness for his push most of the time bc he was either wrestling great guys who could carry him or if he wasn't it was gimmicked up like the Strowman feud and those were actually the best bc you weren't mad he was beating this great talent lol

Probs my biggest issue with that era was the ignoring of the crowd. I didn't care that I didn't even necessary agree with them on Roman, it hurts my enjoyment anyway when a company is constantly fighting the crowds thoughts, it's like a "customer is always right" thing. Yeah I think some crowds suck but you still gotta play to them or your whole show sucks bc of them lol

Did this phenomenon start with Cena ? I feel like wwe didn't do this before n hasn't really done it since Roman turned. Mb in the midcard still w guys like Kross but it's inoffensive in that slot. Feels like they were fighting the crowd in the main for like 8 years though

 

[Comrade Khan]

I do agree they hid those weaknesses well fwiw Chris. It was just hard looking at guys like KO, guys in NXT and even worse , discovering njpw. He looked so slow and plodding in comparison it was hard for me to unsee.

I did love the 1st Braun feud tho. I'll never shit on that

 

[Chris]

It started with Cena I think (though I know Hogan had haters) bc even tho the crowd was booing him they thought it would hurt business too much bc of his merch sales to turn him so that was the logic. With Roman I think it was just "nope we're pushing him"

 

[Death By Looch]

Lex Luger comes to mind... kinda, at least.

 

[Comrade Khan]

Lex Luger comes to mind... kinda, at least.

Yeah I do think the difference with him ans even Hogan is once the crowd turned they quickly changed (relatively). Cena n Roman were near decade long pushes n esp Roman was getting loud jeers for a lot of his baby face run. Cena was mega over at some point I assume but then they just hit obnoxious about it

 

[Chris]

They actually got a tad better with Cena bc they started leaning into half the crowd hating him. It was probably like 07-11 was the worst of it where they were pretending like he wasn't booed

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

Yeah I do think the difference with him ans even Hogan is once the crowd turned they quickly changed (relatively). Cena n Roman were near decade long pushes n esp Roman was getting loud jeers for a lot of his baby face run. Cena was mega over at some point I assume but then they just hit obnoxious about it

Tbf to Luger, fans turned on him because he didn't actually win the WWF Championship, had he actually beaten Yoko proper, he probably would have been over for much much longer than his WWF run implies.

As an aside, the way Vince specifically booked Roman was such dogshit and I've through my problems with Super Roman and the mega push of 2015-2018 over and over again. I don't really want to repeat myself, just that "Big Samoan Badass" wrote itself, but Vince wanted him to be "Goofy silly Roman!"

Suffering Succotash will never not be remembered as an all-time stinker of a segment that tarnished Roman's main event push for years.