FWA 'Lights Out' (2022) || Card Thread.

[Oz]

Andersen Vega: Okay first of all using Spongebob time cards in the promo fucking had me wheezing for some reason. Not sure if they fit Andersen Vega the character per se, but they're very funny in an isolated case. Okay, coming to the promo itself:

We were promised a dickhead and safe to say we got a dickhead in our hands with Vega here. I like the contrast between his obviously-fake-overly-polite manner in Twitter compared to his pure unadultrated assholery here. Maybe its because social media or maybe because theres difference between levels of 'respect' (as much as this character can have) he has for Rosie's characters compared to a lowly cameraman. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Anyway, as far as dick moves go, being dick to an underling isn't anything new but works well enough to establish Vega's personality for his first promo. We also got some exposition to Vega's past there. (but I'm not sure how hospitalizing Reagan Cole makes Vega the bad guy here? Surely that would make him the biggest face since Danielson in 2014?)

In the second half of the promo we got the man teaching the new generation. Got some humanization for our guy there with his regrets about his addictions. Cool, we got a three dimensional personality! Needless to say, that aspect should be followed up in future promos, not every promo maybe but I think it's an aspect that you should not let go.

Really liked his small monologue about the business at the end. Though I really would've liked a bigger match focus in this promo? Grabbing a title shot in his debut match could've been a good enough prospect for Andersen to at least talk and send a message rather than just saying 'yea i'll beat 19 others'. For a promo that competes in the Secular Spooktacular match, I think it really lacks on that department.

But as an introductory promo to the character then I say it's pretty good. You didn't reinvent the wheel here but wrote a solid piece regardless. Looking forward to reading your future work.

 

[SupineSnake]

Danny Toner vs. Alyster Black.
(FWA World Championship)

As I mentioned in the preview, to me this - with Golden added to the mix also - feels like the fullest, longest feud in the FWA at the moment, and it certainly feels like the best-realised world championship feud we've had since at least MvH/Kennedy and probably before that (dare I say to Sulley/REDACTED). It's good to see that the promo quality was up to the hype - I actually think there was a slight improvement in promo quality even compared to the Anniversary Show. This was another world championship match which was downright impossible to grade and made the mods feel like absolute arseholes in having to pick a winner.

I think I enjoyed the set-up to the Alyster promo a little more here than I did at the Anniversary Show. That could just be because I like Groundhog Day more than I like Star Wars? You still went with an unrealistic concept but I felt it was more fitting with the character, as it was grounded in reality (sort of) with just a twist on real-word dynamics (albeit quite a large twist!). When I started reading it, I was slightly concerned that there would be too many similarities to a Golden Rock promo (which I believe was actually from Mile High, when they beat Jam and I) that also used the Groundhog Day concept, and thought that maybe there would be issues with the story being perhaps too similar to that of the film, which does hurt creativity for me. However, the twist in the second half of the promo sort of balanced that out and made this feel like a unique piece that stood alone and apart from the Golden Rock roleplay and the film from which both take inspiration. I loved the idea that Toner and Black are destined to fight forever, to be each other's bane, to drive each other crazy, etc. The table at the start, I thought initially that this was simply posturing and pointing out your winning record against the champ, but by the end of the promo I realised that this was some subtle (or maybe not so subtle with the gift of hindsight) allusion to the fight forever theme of the promo.

Thematically speaking, Danny Toner's promo was equally impressive and I particularly liked the subplot involving the grandfather. I reached out to Tig to ask if the grandfather character, who is going through dementia and slowly losing his memories - was a metaphor for Toner himself since his heel turn. Toner is slowly losing himself, losing the memories of who he used to be. I very much enjoyed the passage in which it is discussed that, upon occasion, granda remembers parts of who he was, of who he used to know, of what he used to be. I think this is reflective of Toner, too, who is perhaps doing these morally dubious things (outside of the bells, of course), but perhaps there's still an element there of who he used to be. Even when Toner was a face, I don't think he was a white meat baby-face at all, and I wouldn't have put it past him to defy standard moral conventions in promos and away from the ring. I think this promo really reinforced the shades of grey in the character, and perhaps highlighted that this recent turn is only the darker shades coming to prominence for the time being.

I'd be interested in the writer's analysis of the heroin/fantasy sections? Is this Danny abstracting himself from reality by his relationship with EE? The characters in those sections are the fellow Excellent Executives, leading me to believe that Danny is perhaps distancing himself from reality, both in the fantasy-ish sections of the promo as well as in the FWA in general, through his association with Parr, Gabrielle, and Kayden? I enjoyed these parts, and particularly the puzzle they've given me in understanding their significance, but a part of me also felt that there are a lot of ingredients in this promo. The quality of the writing sees it through and keeps it (more than) coherent, but I wonder if perhaps the promo would've improved by stripping back an element or two. Then again, perhaps this in itself is another allusion to the clouded, crowded mind of Danny Toner.

That being said, the Black promo felt like it had a lot more direct focus and the linearity of it helped the flow, even if Alyster's roleplay is quite sprawling in its ambition and its content at times. It felt like its points where clearer and as such rawr was able to delve into them in a lot more detail. Toner's was more of an enigma, I felt, and gave me a lot of work to do myself. Both of the promos were enjoyable conceptually and thematically despite being very contrasting in this regard.

I think it would be easy to assume Black won the creativity section, simply because the concept is - at least on the surface - more 'out there' and different from what we'd expect to see. Toner, however, was excellent at interweaving different story points, concepts, and themes, whilst delivering a narrative that in itself felt wholly original rather than a re-tread of a pre-existing piece of art. I've mentioned earlier that I think Black overcomes this limitation in the second half, where the promo really finds its own voice in my opinion and detaches itself from the source. I actually had this match tied in the creativity section: I felt both were unique in their own ways and could only be written by their specific authors.

Both of the promos were pretty clean, but not perfect, in terms of spelling, grammar, and formatting. Another tie for me in this category. Still waiting to give out my first, elusive 'perfect 5' for presentation.

The set-up of this promo allowed Black more opportunity in the character sections than did the Anniversary Show piece, partially because it was more grounded in this reality but also on account of the aforementioned linear focus of the narrative. I always tend to grade rawr highly in these categories and particularly portrayal: he has an extraordinary grasp of his character, partially because of the length of time he's been writing him, partly his skill as a writer, and partly because at times Black feels like an extension of the writer in some ways. All of these things are equally true about tig and Toner. These are two of the best and most consistently written characters in the fed right now, maybe ever. I particularly loved both of the characters showing ample amounts of vulnerability here: I'm a sucker for emotive writing and both promos had this in shedloads.

As an aside, I wasn't sure about the portrayal of Kayden in the Toner promo. It didn't feel quite right to me: he felt too buoyant and forthright given what OMB has established with the character in his own work. I didn't penalise grades for that here, but that may be something I consider doing in the future after discussion with the other mods.

Quick shout outs to Natural Born Killaz and the Tony/Linda melodrama in the Black promo. Not grade-influencing, but enjoyed them immensely.

Thanks for writing these promos. I loved reading them. Both of you are amazing writers who have influenced my own writing style in the time I've been reading you. You're worthy champions and I wish you could both be world champions, but we just did that angle.

Looking forward to writing the match. Hope you both enjoy it and is worthy of the time and thought that has gone into sculpting these roleplays.

 

[SupineSnake]

Jeremy Best vs. Gabrielle vs. Kayden Knox vs. Chris Peacock vs. Cyrus Truth vs. Mike Parr vs. Devin Golden.
(Golden Opportunity)

The thing that struck me most with the Golden Opportunity promos was the contrasting approaches on display in terms of how to approach a multi-man match. Usually, I think it's best to steer clear of a 'list' type promo that runs through each of your opponents in a sort of checklist fashion, although that argument is somewhat debunked by the fact that a list promo (albeit a super creative one) won last year's Golden Opportunity match and indeed the promo of the year. That being said, I think it can be a pitfall in creativity and that was something seen here. The Chris Peacock promo, whilst mostly exceptionally written, did rely a little too heavily on this format for my liking. I didn't particularly enjoy the Django Unchained film, but it's undeniable that you've re-told in a neat and inventive way that scores very good creativity points. I do question some of the inclusions in terms of kills for Peacock along his journey, most notably Jeremy Best, who seemed somewhat random both in terms of the representation of the character and Peacock's attitude towards him. Some of the sections in this list promo were more successful than others, and I think things really hit their stride in the EE Compound scene. This is by far the best section of the promo, where I think the narrative is tight, as well as the parallels to FWA roster members clearer and more insightful. I liked the overall pitch as Peacock as this moral outlier, as if he's caught in two minds with regards to the man he wants to be and how far he's willing to go to achieve his ends.

The Cyrus Truth promo also had some features of a list roleplay with the men and women attempting to solve the puzzle being stand-ins for the GO competitors as Truth narrates over them. This felt like a classic Truth promo with an extremely strong monologue: his points on each of your opponents were extremely well thought out and presented, and I thought this roleplay was maybe the best and most thoughtful (albeit also the most direct) in how the other competitors in the match were addressed. The puzzle attempts brought a level of creativity to the promo, but with the central thrust of this being Cyrus talking to the camera I though there were limitations there and that others in the match took a more inventive approach to it. Mike Parr, for instance, was setting up what I really thought could've been this year's Scott Pilgrim. The set-up and concept for this were absolutely brilliant, and I know that Prod was disappointed to not be able to realise it fully this week. I do think that this roleplay could have become a list by the end of it, as the narrative to the book is conducive to that with each of the factory's contestants dropping off the tour one-by-one. As I opened with, though, it is possible to do a really inventive and engaging list promo, and this could certainly have been it. (Although I do wonder why the chocolate bars are called Dreamer, rather than something to do with Toner, but maybe this is an allusion to his obsession? Not sure.)

Although maybe less obviously so, I also found the ending to the Kayden Knox promo to be quite abrupt. This was a very short piece from OMB, and the finale seemed almost like a deus ex machina to take us through to the end of the promo. That being said, I did like the imagery of the cracks and the falling building, and then the secondary Kayden Knox next to him. I wonder if this is something you intend to continue in future promos as it was a really interesting twist at the end of the promo, albeit very sudden and jarring. Would’ve liked to have seen more from this Kayden Knox roleplay in such a big match, it felt a little rushed and raw and a slight slip back in terms of presentation given the recent massive improvements in that regard. Kayden’s tag team partner, Gabrielle, feels a lot fuller and more complete than the other two Executive Excellent promos. I actually think the promo being late, and therefore worrying about getting the win and hitting important points, made ETE a lot more free in what he could accomplish in the promo. Gabrielle’s life flashing before her eyes as she lies on her deathbed was a simple but really creative idea. Obviously I haven’t been around long enough to know all of the intricacies of Gabrielle’s history (who has?!), but I knew enough for these scenes to be very impactful and emotive, particularly the Kennedy section. This also filled in gaps in my Gabrielle knowledge in an interesting way, and I loved the ample pathos as well as measures of sentimentality present in this promo. I said that the lateness of the promo was freeing in some ways, and that is particularly true when considering match focus. This is something that was almost entirely ignored, which obviously would’ve hurt the hypothetical competitiveness of the promo, but it really allowed ETE to delve into this backstory in a way that I found to be a very reflective and elegiac almost-eulogy for the life and career of Gabrielle.

There were parallels, I thought, between Gabrielle’s approach and the one employed by Dubb with Jeremy Best. They both were sort of list promos but, uniquely, the lists that they worked through were not a list of the other wrestlers in the match. The Krash Crusades, I think, has been a great success for Dubb and the Best character, and this almost sort of felt like that narrative coming to its head. The eventual conversation with ‘Krash’ was, in my opinion, the absolute highlight of this promo, as you’d expect it to be, and I found that whole section to be a really touching passage that really gave justice to the adorable relationship between Best and the White Wolf. The match focus in this promo was brought about through these discussions, but I do think this lacked the cunning creativity of the Peacock promo as well as the thought out nuance of the Truth one. That being said, the strength of this promo is not necessarily in match focus: it’s in the characterisation of Best, which remains strong through, and the strength of the dialogues that he engages in with your peripheral characters.

I mentioned contrasting approaches: Cyrus and Man went with promos that addressed each of the opponents one by one (though in very different ways), and I think Prod was going down the same route (although, thinking further about this, I think it’s possible he’d have overcome that due to all seven of the stand-ins here being involved in the same scenes throughout, which would be counter to the aforementioned Cyrus and Man promos… really want to read the end of this promo). Best and Gabrielle concentrated entirely on their own characters and the relationships they’ve formed in their backstory and specifically in the FWA. Kayden went with the irreverent and a surreal ending. TGO, with Devin Golden, went the most ‘out there’ by a country mile with what I thought was an extremely intelligent and creative promo. Golden and Best have both engaged in long-term storytelling and these promos each seem like something of a climax to the narratives they’ve been weaving recently. Golden in particular did so in a way that I thought was just stunning. Tying in the Sauce Man character, which TGO told me was always the plan to some degree, was neatly done and really helped further the central point of the promo. Whilst Gabrielle’s promo felt like a eulogy to her career, and Best’s promo almost a eulogy to his friend, the Devin Golden promo felt like a eulogy for eFedding in general, or perhaps more specifically TGO’s relationship to it. I probably enjoyed this promo the most out of all of them: it was so thoughtful and engaging throughout, and a fitting culmination to what has been an incredible narrative that TGO has sculpted since the bounty (and before).

 

[SupineSnake]

As promised, reviews for those who gave a review:

Caesar

Yo considering you hate Nephew adventures so much, you've written quite a number of them recently! I rated this promo a little higher than your joint effort with Uncle, although I did enjoy that one too, and I think the main reason for that was the more consistent character portrayal of the characters being roleplayed as. I think in the last promo it was quite obvious who was writing which parts, which I sort of held against it a little, but with you able to focus on Caesar fully you were able to score more highly in the character categories and this probably had some effect on the QoC category too.

I loved the concept and the set-up to this with Caesar Lima syndroming the space pirates, which - although the reincarnated Roman has become much more sympathetic through his association with Stu and the long-term character progression that came with that - displayed how calculated, manipulative, and intelligent Caesar can be when the situation requires it. Caesar driving up his bounty was a brilliant nod towards his narcissism and his ego, which all helped with character portrayal here. The progression comes in the second half of the promo through Caesar's conversations with 'Uncle'. This was a nicely done dialogue which again brings Caesar's relationship with Stu and his ambitions for himself as a person and within the FWA. However, there is truth to this section being more a reiteration of previous development as opposed to entirely new progression points, but I think a character accepting his arc and what it means for him - even if the reader maybe got there before him - is still an important part of the narrative.

Another proof read would've helped this promo a fair bit, I think: there was some untidiness here and there with the spelling, semantics, and grammar (mostly the latter). That was the weakest graded category for me, but I think the other positives made up for this and it never got in the way of me being able to follow the thread of the narrative. This was a very effective promo that highlighted the key differences between your character and your opponent, as well as between your character now and your character a year or two ago.

Tommy.

This promo absolutely blew me away. I'm going to mention your promo with James Douglas back at last year's Mile High Massacre because I remember that the same thing was said by quite a few people: the scope and ambition of it were very impressive, and the new style you employed way back then was different to what you had been putting out, but there were drawbacks in that the promo maybe went a little long and took a while to return to the characters themselves. I remember it started with quite a long essay-ish section on the concept of war, which was abstract enough for me to enjoy but maybe a little too abstracted from the Deathswitch characters. In many ways, this here promo felt like a realisation of a lot of the promise we saw back in that promo, which is something I said in the discord but will reiterate here.

The opening half (or maybe two thirds of the promo) were absolutely brilliant, using the bull and Tommy's uncle(?) as a metaphor for the situation with Jason, with Bedlam having to get back on the bull, the one that wounded him and put him out to pasture in the past, just as his uncle is going through the same thing with his bull. This metaphor was perfect. Not sure if it was just me but it's not one I saw straight away, but it gradually became clearer and clearer that this was what the promo was about, the concept and central theme slowly coming into prominence and revealing itself. This is exactly how the central metaphor should be, in my opinion, and you fucking nailed it.

I thought that maybe the promo was going to end in perhaps an overly positive and maybe contrived way with the uncle mastering his bull and that being the end of it, but was pleased that you didn't go that way and tagged on these hospital scenes. These were well written, quite emotive, and I thought helped to expand upon that central point in that the consequences of perseverance are not always positive but worthwhile anyway. There's a very good chance that Bedlam will get messed up against Randall - this is what I was thinking when reading these sections - but the cowboy intends to do so anyway. Cowboy shit.

Just like Caesar I thought an extra proof would have been worthwhile, and I think the female characters felt very secondary and sort of tagged on. I don't think these characters were as well realised as Tommy (obviously), Rocco (loved the city guy donning his spurs for the rodeo), and the uncle. Still, these are minor drawbacks: this is easily the best promo of yours that I read and was up there with some of the best stuff posted on this card.

Vampyra.

I enjoyed the backstory to the Vampyra in this promo: it is obviously true that not everyone that joins the FWA (in-kayfabe as a wrestler, I mean) will be debuting as a pro wrestler there, and I'm a fan of the KAIZEN-method of invented backstory with the creation of in-universe additional federations (I think this is what you said you'd done on the Discord, though I think one or two of the feds mentioned might be actual eFeds the character has been in in the past). You should get these added to our WC/S Masterlist. This is a fun way of lending the character credibility and also giving you a shot at competing with guys who have a lot of history and character backstory within the FWA. I'd like to see this developed through more than just present day dialogue in the future, perhaps through a flashback or memory sequence, to more fully round out Vampyra's backstory.

The second half of the promo was a more direct monologue type deal, and I thought it was interesting that both promos from new members followed a similar format of an off-screen section proceeded by a record monologue (though I believe it's the case that you're something of a mentor to Welshy, which explains that also). As you've probably seen from the other promos on this card, generally speaking we tend to shy away from monologue in favour of something less direct, although that's not always the case and there were a couple of strong monologues from old members for Lights Out. That being said, I think this direct method can lose out on creativity points, especially if returned to too often. The content of the monologue was strong, though, and the imagery involved was well put together and fit well within the context of the Secular Spooktacular. Were these images meant to be representative of your opponents, also? That's the impression I got, with one of these projections reminding me a lot of Konchu, who was listed as a potential opponent in the preview. Not sure if this was a coincidence, I hope it wasn't because I thought this was a nice touch.

Although I liked a lot of the backstory and character work from that perspective in the first section, I thought a fair bit of the descriptive passages were a little bit matter-of-fact in that section. A lot of it seemed to revolve around Vampyra's actions (Vampyra did this, Vampyra did that, etc) which made some passages read as overly functional. I would've liked more information and detail regarding what she's thinking and feeling in these sections, though maybe that will come into your promos more after the character is more established within the fed and within your reader's minds. I also didn't really like the way that translations were included for some Japanese words were given in brackets: I'd rather have seen this done more prosaically or trust the reader to understand it from context. The method you chose I found a little jarring and obtrusive to flow.

Overall I thought this promo did a good job of establishing the Vampyra character for me and also hinting at a larger backstory. It built excellent foundations for future works and was overall a well presented and well written piece. I had this second overall in the Spooktacular behind Baxter and am looking forward to future development that you laid down the groundwork for.

 

[Rosie]

Vampyra.

I enjoyed the backstory to the Vampyra in this promo: it is obviously true that not everyone that joins the FWA (in-kayfabe as a wrestler, I mean) will be debuting as a pro wrestler there, and I'm a fan of the KAIZEN-method of invented backstory with the creation of in-universe additional federations (I think this is what you said you'd done on the Discord, though I think one or two of the feds mentioned might be actual eFeds the character has been in in the past). You should get these added to our WC/S Masterlist. This is a fun way of lending the character credibility and also giving you a shot at competing with guys who have a lot of history and character backstory within the FWA. I'd like to see this developed through more than just present day dialogue in the future, perhaps through a flashback or memory sequence, to more fully round out Vampyra's backstory.

The second half of the promo was a more direct monologue type deal, and I thought it was interesting that both promos from new members followed a similar format of an off-screen section proceeded by a record monologue (though I believe it's the case that you're something of a mentor to Welshy, which explains that also). As you've probably seen from the other promos on this card, generally speaking we tend to shy away from monologue in favour of something less direct, although that's not always the case and there were a couple of strong monologues from old members for Lights Out. That being said, I think this direct method can lose out on creativity points, especially if returned to too often. The content of the monologue was strong, though, and the imagery involved was well put together and fit well within the context of the Secular Spooktacular. Were these images meant to be representative of your opponents, also? That's the impression I got, with one of these projections reminding me a lot of Konchu, who was listed as a potential opponent in the preview. Not sure if this was a coincidence, I hope it wasn't because I thought this was a nice touch.

Although I liked a lot of the backstory and character work from that perspective in the first section, I thought a fair bit of the descriptive passages were a little bit matter-of-fact in that section. A lot of it seemed to revolve around Vampyra's actions (Vampyra did this, Vampyra did that, etc) which made some passages read as overly functional. I would've liked more information and detail regarding what she's thinking and feeling in these sections, though maybe that will come into your promos more after the character is more established within the fed and within your reader's minds. I also didn't really like the way that translations were included for some Japanese words were given in brackets: I'd rather have seen this done more prosaically or trust the reader to understand it from context. The method you chose I found a little jarring and obtrusive to flow.

Overall I thought this promo did a good job of establishing the Vampyra character for me and also hinting at a larger backstory. It built excellent foundations for future works and was overall a well presented and well written piece. I had this second overall in the Spooktacular behind Baxter and am looking forward to future development that you laid down the groundwork for.

I REALLY appreciate this! The monologue is a classic which I am decently strong with, though I am interested in trying to break out of my comfort zone as time goes on. It'll be a nice challenge in the future.

Spoiler

Also not going to lie, I have thought of things like that. I didn't want to have a bunch of backstory right off the bat. Just need the right time as I already have a couple ideas.

Translations are something I am thinking about how to do well. What is your recommendation for it?

Thank you so much. There are a good few things to consider in the future and thank you to the others who were nice to give me feedback!