Estimated TNA Buys for their 2007 PPV

[The Rated R CMStar]

Dude, he's the World Champion. Do you expect him to be in the mid-card matches? That was a pretty stupid comment tbh.

And what do you think was John Cena?

You might come with John Cena always defends his title and wins on every PPV. Well, so does Kurt Angle. At least one on one matches, but since almost on all PPV we see a tag match as a main event, that's a good way to have Angle lose, keep him strong and with his title.

So Roxxy, or all you WWE main eventers haters, for all you bash HHH(who does lose one on one PPV matches), John Cena, you have to bash Kurt Angle first because he does the same thing.


So only Kurt Angle can put good matches, because I recall him having a MOTY candidate with Umaga, as well with Shawn Michaels, and Randy Orton, oh and just the year before that, with Edge, 3 times. And let's not forget that 'til date he is the only one to make Khali bearable not name Mark Callaway.

 

[PeepShow]

And what do you think was John Cena?

You might come with John Cena always defends his title and wins on every PPV. Well, so does Kurt Angle. At least one on one matches, but since almost on all PPV we see a tag match as a main event, that's a good way to have Angle lose, keep him strong and with his title.

Thats not the point. I could care less about where he's at on the PPV card or whatnot. The way you said you comment was that Angle shouldn't be in every single ME. He should. He's the World Fucking Champion. End of Story. This has absolutely nothing to do with how bad you think TNA is.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

No, it has to do with the fact that people bash John Cena for being on every main event, and even use it to defend TNA, but Kurt Angle does the same thing. And as John Cena, Kurt Angle doesn't lose unless it is a tag team match.

 

[PeepShow]

No, it has to do with the fact that people bash John Cena for being on every main event, and even use it to defend TNA, but Kurt Angle does the same thing. And as John Cena, Kurt Angle doesn't lose unless it is a tag team match.

That, I agree with. Nothing else to be said.

 

[Angryphilip2]

bound for glory should have had more buys then that, hell i will even admit that it was a damn good ppv...

 

[PeepShow]

btw, Destination X's ME was Joe/Christian, not Joe/Sting.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

With that out of the way, let's focus on the real shit post.

Know what the difference is? Kurt Angle actually LOSES. He's gotten the royal shit beaten out of him week to week and he's been destroyed in PPVs

Really...when? You mean when he loses only after being distracted by someone else? And by beaten the royal shit out of him you mean getting beaten on iMPACT just to win at the PPV. And by destroy you mean destroy Sting's title making it one week, or destroy my intelligence by dressing as a peregrin, or how about destroying Samoa Joe's push, then I agree with you.

How many title defenses has John Cena lost in the past year and a half? NONE. I really wish I was a member here when Cena wasn't injured. You could bet all your credits on Cena and triple them every time. Must have been sweet.

Funny thing that you selected the exact time lenght to leave out Edge's and RVD's reigns. And no, I bet on Randy at Summerslam pal.

Granted, Angle won more often than he lost in PPVs, but that seems identical to the Triple H pattern, doesn't it?

Well yeah, they both are main eventers.

If you want to knock Angle, knock Triple H while you're at it, and outright concede defeat in the face of your invincible John Cena.

I have said time after time that HHH is a politics whore, but he is a great draw and he shouldn't job to everybody, just to the ones that actuall....you know what, screw it, I am talking to a guy that prefers to see Jamie Noble in the main event rather than HBK and HHH.

 

[chessarmy]

So only Kurt Angle can put good matches, because I recall him having a MOTY candidate with Umaga, as well with Shawn Michaels, and Randy Orton, oh and just the year before that, with Edge, 3 times. And let's not forget that 'til date he is the only one to make Khali bearable not name Mark Callaway.

The only match of the year Cena had with Edge was the TLC match, and that was because it was a TLC match. Also, Angle has had a match of the year candidate against Jay Lethal (he put him over...exact OPPOSITE of Cena), Samoa Joe 3 times, Christian Cage earlier this year, Kaz on iMPACT!, Sting at Bound For Glory, and he was also a part of Lethal Lockdown, another match of the year candidate.

And I know I am not alone on this...Kurt Angle>>>>>>>>>>>John Cena

 

[Tsaalyo Phoenix]

With that out of the way, let's focus on the real shit post.

Yes, let's focus. Thanks for making it so we have something to focus on.

Really...when? You mean when he loses only after being distracted by someone else? And by beaten the royal shit out of him you mean getting beaten on iMPACT just to win at the PPV. And by destroy you mean destroy Sting's title making it one week, or destroy my intelligence by dressing as a peregrin, or how about destroying Samoa Joe's push, then I agree with you.

So getting beaten week to week but winning the PPV is inexcusable? Might want to have a talk with your boy Cena then. Short title reigns are inexcusable? Might want to talk to WWE bookers about Kane's 24 hour reign then. Destroying pushes and burying top talent? John Cena sure as hell knows NOTHING about THAT.

Funny thing that you selected the exact time lenght to leave out Edge's and RVD's reigns. And no, I bet on Randy at Summerslam pal.

Yes, I selected the exact length of time in which John Cena never lost a title defense, as to support my argument. Kurt Angle lost... I believe it was three title defenses in this past year alone. WWE's style, on the other hand, is to have a wrestler defend his title thrice in one night before finally just barely, BARELY, "got up in exactly 10 seconds instead of 9.5 to beat the count" losing.

Seriously, why would you bring up the length of time I picked? Want to go back multiple years until we finally find a time when John Cena wasn't champion? Hell, why don't we go back to before he was even in the WWE? I bet someone else was champion THEN.

Well yeah, they both are main eventers.

So you complain about a main eventer main eventing? And before you spout off crap, no, I do not complain about that. I complain about the likes of John Cena and Triple H pushed so hard that you might as well turn the show off and watch something else because you know how it's going to end.

I have said time after time that HHH is a politics whore, but he is a great draw and he shouldn't job to everybody, just to the ones that actuall....you know what, screw it, I am talking to a guy that prefers to see Jamie Noble in the main event rather than HBK and HHH.

Oh? I want Jamie Noble to main event shows? Let's see the post you are referencing.

Bury: Triple H, John Cena, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Chuck Palumbo, Batista (Not necessarily make him job, just put him in a storyline that keeps him out of the HC scene for a while)
Minor Push: Kevin Thorn (Once he gets his old look back, dear god, he looks like a crack addict now), Jamie Noble, Jimmy Wang Yang, Gregory Helms (Maybe, we'll see how he is when he recovers)
Major Push: Mr. Kennedy, Kane, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Jesse and Festus (For tag team, obviously)

And get another Vampire diva for Kevin Thorn.

Seems I voted for him to get a minor push. Now wait, hold on, maybe minor push qualifies as Main Event! Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and look at the definition of what I voted for. It's only fair.

Major Push - [For the WWE or World Championship/ "ME" Status, Main Event, Higher in the card]
Minor Push - [Intercontinental Championship, US Title/ jobber to midcard etc..]
Getting into the WWE [Just to Enter the WWE, from Development to Major Shows, Paul Burchill to ECW/ etc. etc.]
Negative Push/ bury [A guy pulled off from the Main Event, stripped of a Championship/ fired/ Cena fired/ Khali killed...etc.]

Hm. Seems that, in actuality, I do NOT want Jamie Noble to main event stuff! Wow, good thing we did our research, eh? Otherwise one of us would have looked like a total idiot. Thank god that didn't happen.

 

[chessarmy]

^ lol nice, I think that pretty much closed this arguement

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

Quote:
Granted, Angle won more often than he lost in PPVs, but that seems identical to the Triple H pattern, doesn't it?
Well yeah, they both are main eventers.

So, for a main eventer is ok to win more matches that the ones he lose but it is wrong if the main eventer is named HHH, then when he wins is pure burial.

Second, Kurt Angle is 39 years old, he is, at this point in his career, be putting younger talent over. John Cena is 30, has only be main eventer for 2 years, is in the peek of his career, is the major drawing in wrestling, and still, just because you want to, he has to job. Oh, and please explain how a 39 year old winning is any better than a 30 year old or HHH, that is 38? Oh, I forgot, Cena "can't wrestle" and made the awful mistake of being over with the crowd and selling merchandise, yeah, he should be in midcard. And Hunter, yeah, he is over, talented, great mic skills, but oh, just, just because he is married with Steph, anything he does is wrong or has a secret intention.

Yes, I selected the exact length of time in which John Cena never lost a title defense, as to support my argument. Kurt Angle lost... I believe it was three title defenses in this past year alone. WWE's style, on the other hand, is to have a wrestler defend his title thrice in one night before finally just barely, BARELY, "got up in exactly 10 seconds instead of 9.5 to beat the count" losing.

Oh, because the matches Kurt Angle lost the title in where so clean! I mean, he lost the Tag Team Titles after betraying Sting and hell, he was not even pinned. And the amazing putting over of Jay Lethal, yes, winning with a roll-up. And the third one, oh wait, he won the third one, oh, and by submission.

So getting beaten week to week but winning the PPV is inexcusable? Might want to have a talk with your boy Cena then. Short title reigns are inexcusable? Might want to talk to WWE bookers about Kane's 24 hour reign then. Destroying pushes and burying top talent? John Cena sure as hell knows NOTHING about THAT.

No, it's not, but remember that just as Cena Kurt Angle does it. Again, they are main eventers, they should not lose on every PPV. But now that you mention this, when has Kurt Angle been destroyed on any PPV? And again, who is more of a top talent than John Cena? He is 30 years old, younger than most main eventers, and he is the most over wrestler in the world? Why should he put people over? Kurt Angle does.

The only match of the year Cena had with Edge was the TLC match, and that was because it was a TLC match. Also, Angle has had a match of the year candidate against Jay Lethal (he put him over...exact OPPOSITE of Cena), Samoa Joe 3 times, Christian Cage earlier this year, Kaz on iMPACT!, Sting at Bound For Glory, and he was also a part of Lethal Lockdown, another match of the year candidate.

Nice job avoiding all the other matches. So I guess:

John Cena vs Umaga LMS

John Cena vs Edge TLC

John Cena vs HBK I

John Cena vs HBK One HOur Showdown

John Cena vs Randy Orton at Summerslam

Those weren't MOTY candidates? That has to be the most biased comment ever?


And last, nice way taking contextual a simple example, but now that you brought that post up, let's see how your main event and midcard would look like!

Main event: Kane, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Mr. Kennedy, Taker, Batista(apparently not always), Taker, Edge, Randy Orton.

Jobbers: HHH, HBK, Ric Flair, John Cena.

Yeah, in that landscape whether Jamie Noble is IC Title or main eventer makes a lot of difference

 

[Tsaalyo Phoenix]

So, for a main eventer is ok to win more matches that the ones he lose but it is wrong if the main eventer is named HHH, then when he wins is pure burial.

Second, Kurt Angle is 39 years old, he is, at this point in his career, be putting younger talent over. John Cena is 30, has only be main eventer for 2 years, is in the peek of his career, is the major drawing in wrestling, and still, just because you want to, he has to job. Oh, and please explain how a 39 year old winning is any better than a 30 year old or HHH, that is 38? Oh, I forgot, Cena "can't wrestle" and made the awful mistake of being over with the crowd and selling merchandise, yeah, he should be in midcard. And Hunter, yeah, he is over, talented, great mic skills, but oh, just, just because he is married with Steph, anything he does is wrong or has a secret intention.

If Kurt Angle should only put younger talent over now, that's all Triple H should do as well. Unless of course the cutoff is exactly 38/39. And about people being over? Just because all the promos consist of them and just because televised matches have pops enhanced in editing doesn't mean stars are actually over. If the majority of fans had their way do you really think John Cena would have held the championship for a year and a half? Do you really think Ric Flair would still be beating top talent? It was even said somewhere that people WITHIN WWE management are sick of it.

Oh, because the matches Kurt Angle lost the title in where so clean! I mean, he lost the Tag Team Titles after betraying Sting and hell, he was not even pinned. And the amazing putting over of Jay Lethal, yes, winning with a roll-up. And the third one, oh wait, he won the third one, oh, and by submission.

Last I checked Jeff Hardy only beat Triple H via roll-up, so once again, look to your WWE invincible supermen before you go knocking TNA. And again, how many title defenses has John Cena lost cleanly in the past year and a half? Or via cheating that the ref didn't see?

Dude, you can nitpick over details of individual TNA matches all you want, but it doesn't mean anything. The only truth is: John Cena did not lose a title defense in a YEAR AND A HALF. Until that changes, you have no right to complain that Kurt Angle is in the main event a lot. At least he loses matches in some way, ever.

No, it's not, but remember that just as Cena Kurt Angle does it. Again, they are main eventers, they should not lose on every PPV. But now that you mention this, when has Kurt Angle been destroyed on any PPV? And again, who is more of a top talent than John Cena? He is 30 years old, younger than most main eventers, and he is the most over wrestler in the world? Why should he put people over? Kurt Angle does.

No, they should not lose every PPV, but they should lose AT LEAST ONE PPV IN A YEAR AND A HALF. Who is more talented than Cena? Half the WWE roster. And once again, don't base overness on edited pops and PPV commercials that don't feature anyone else. It's very easy to be "the most over wrestler on RAW" when nobody else has any significant air time.

John Cena vs Umaga LMS

John Cena vs Edge TLC

John Cena vs HBK I

John Cena vs HBK One HOur Showdown

John Cena vs Randy Orton at Summerslam

I love how you tried to argue that Kurt Angle main events too much, and then you put up this list here. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

And last, nice way taking contextual a simple example, but now that you brought that post up, let's see how your main event and midcard would look like!

Main event: Kane, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Mr. Kennedy, Taker, Batista(apparently not always), Taker, Edge, Randy Orton.

Jobbers: HHH, HBK, Ric Flair, John Cena.

Yeah, in that landscape whether Jamie Noble is IC Title or main eventer makes a lot of difference

Well no, Ric Flair wouldn't job, because a 58 year old fat man who can't wrestle would have no place in my brand to begin with. And yes, there is quite a difference between IC and Heavyweight Champion. But aside from that, yes, they'd be my main eventers, or at the very least top talent. I'd also have Chris Jericho in there. If you have some kind of argument against the likes of Kane or Jeff Hardy, sil vous plait, make it.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

Again, I don't know if you are familiar with this, but shows are normally built around main eventers and top acts, and last time I checked, John Cena and Triple were top talent, so, the show should be built around them.

And don't try to change why I am arguing for. I am defending the fact that Cena does exactly what Kurt Angle does, and yet you so conviniently just bash John Cena, and by the way, just because you don't have a technical background and are an excellent performer like Kurt Angle, it doesn't mean that you are bad.

And last time I checked, Kurt Angle and Karen Angle where running wild on iMPACT, appearing on every segment. Hell, he might not been champ by one year and a half, but he held all the company's title, at the same time.

And again, HHH should put talent over, but not every talent he faces. He has putten over a few and look where they are right now. He put over John Cena, Batista, Benoit, jobbed to Taker. Uhhm, all top talent.

Last I checked Jeff Hardy only beat Triple H via roll-up, so once again, look to your WWE invincible supermen before you go knocking TNA. And again, how many title defenses has John Cena lost cleanly in the past year and a half? Or via cheating that the ref didn't see?

Uhhm, it was you who brought that up. You said Kurt Angle put talent over like crazy, cleanly, and that the only way HHH would lose it would be by a messy ending, well, so it's Kurt Angle, again, it was you who brought it up.


To end it, you keep saying that I should stop knock HHH and Cena before I knock on Kurt Angle, well, I have said that Cena's act got repetitive, and I have said it a lot, on the upside, he is still over, and he is young, and he sells merchandise, and he might not be an amazing 5 star performer, but he can put a good match, so why shouldn't he be in the main event? And I have said time after time that HHH is a politics whore, and he just loves booking himself, but on the upside, the fact that he is Mcmahon doesn't erases that he is talented, over, great mic skills and therefore should be in the main event. And by the way, he was on the main event before he married Steph, in fact, he was a 5 time World Champion already.

So, why don't you take your own advice and knock a little on your precious Kurt Angle instead of contradicting yourself and believing that he spents his whole time losing on PPVs and putting talent over

 

[vickymania]

well, i guess the buy rates should improve this year..i always think the line up of matches in TNA ppv's is still not great..they get a good ME match and 2-3 ok matches going into a PPV,but the other bookings r just not good..am happy with the way some of the guys ( KAz, Roode ) r getting their pushes..when will they actually have Booker in the main event..any match with booker and angle involved might get better buy rates..