Defending Punk

[PHX]

That's you opinion, not a fact... Don't go getting all Chad25 on us now.

I really, really hate this theory. Have you ever thought some people 'hate' CM Punk purely because they don't find him entertaining? Hell I remember reading around forums at the time when he pulled off his original shoot and people still weren't entertained by him and that's fair play.

I just hate this notion of people being grouped together as haters or whatever purely because they don't enjoy someone.

It does happen though Orton had his bandwagon when he turned face and everyone wanted to start calling him the next Austin as silly as that was. Everyone goes crying get Ryder on T.V Ryder or Riot and then after a month or few on T.V it's he is overrated, he's this he's that. Everyone on Dolph's bandwagon since late last year and it's gonna happen to him too in a month or so watch. I mean I can go on and on the amount of times this has happened where it goes from a love bandwagon to a hate bandwagon when the guy they supported becomes successful and it's annoying how short some people's attention span is.

Not saying you're not allowed to feel how you feel about a guy as yeah there were some people who didn't mark out over Punk's shoots or starting to turn away from him because his character is getting away from how it was that's fine what is horrible is the people who say stuff like he needs to do more than just doing shoots and when he does then it's he is horrible, he is overrated, turn heel go back to what you were doing like the guy is supposed to change his character every 5 minutes. That's my gripe, not that I feel everyone should be a Punk fan or jiz over him everytime just saying it comes off as too many people being influenced by what the general consensus is good or bad so they don't look like a mark or a hater.

 

[Chadillac]

I enjoy Punk, he rekindled the mark in me last year. But even I can honestly say, he hasn't been quite the draw one would've thought he would be.

Well, that is what happens when all you care about is your "entertainment" that is in front of you, on your TV. If you cant match the numbers with what you think you are seeing, then what you might be seeing is fake, in terms of someone being a financial draw. This is why it is important to care about the business side and understand it, so you wont be shocked when an IWC guy can't bring in new business. They never pan out, and they never will. So like him if you want, but don't ever hold him to the standard of being a financial draw.

I have been telling people since June that Punk can't carry a company. The optics on him are not good. And being "the best wrestler in the world" doesn't mean shitt in the land of sports entertainment.

If he feels he is the best in ring preformer, i don't think he is watching Randy Orton. Get a Clue!

 

[SAL]

Well, I've already posted in this thread without posting, which is pretty cool. Please do as Dale said, like my posts, follow my Twitter, BUY THE T-SHIRT, etc.

BRMP is right. Well, kinda. I think he misses the bigger point. Punk and Bryan are champions now, and in a sense I guess that's the kind of "change" that Punk wanted. But other than that one show where he celebrated with Bryan and Ryder, he hasn't really acknowledged that there's been any change. Punk sat down on the stage and broke wall #4, he said, because he was sick of the Boy's Club, the unchanging hierarchy where merit doesn't matter. Punk thought he deserved to replace John Cena, the guy who wasted our time making stupid jokes and beating everybody.

Here's where I compare Punk to Barack Obama. Because there hasn't been enough mud-slinging in this thread, right?

Things aren't necessarily bad right now. The problem is that Punk's face-turn angle was so bold, so different, so awesome, that he raised our expectations to an impossible degree. He didn't really change the formula; he only changed the people in the formula. Now he's the one making gay jokes and beating upper mid carders. He hasn't done anything fresh since the buildup to the HHH match a few months ago. Because he got himself over as an anti-authority figure, he's been consistently (and aggressively) anti-authority since, even when it made no sense to do so.

Maybe Punk can't do anything better than what he's doing. But he's the one who raised our expectations.

 

[PHX]

Well, I've already posted in this thread without posting, which is pretty cool. Please do as Dale said, like my posts, follow my Twitter, BUY THE T-SHIRT, etc.

BRMP is right. Well, kinda. I think he misses the bigger point. Punk and Bryan are champions now, and in a sense I guess that's the kind of "change" that Punk wanted. But other than that one show where he celebrated with Bryan and Ryder, he hasn't really acknowledged that there's been any change. Punk sat down on the stage and broke wall #4, he said, because he was sick of the Boy's Club, the unchanging hierarchy where merit doesn't matter. Punk thought he deserved to replace John Cena, the guy who wasted our time making stupid jokes and beating everybody.

Here's where I compare Punk to Barack Obama. Because there hasn't been enough mud-slinging in this thread, right?

Things aren't necessarily bad right now. The problem is that Punk's face-turn angle was so bold, so different, so awesome, that he raised our expectations to an impossible degree. He didn't really change the formula; he only changed the people in the formula. Now he's the one making gay jokes and beating upper mid carders. He hasn't done anything fresh since the buildup to the HHH match a few months ago. Because he got himself over as an anti-authority figure, he's been consistently (and aggressively) anti-authority since, even when it made no sense to do so.

Maybe Punk can't do anything better than what he's doing. But he's the one who raised our expectations.

Get what you're saying and agree with some of it but even he said himself that the change he wants isn't gonna happen over night hence my comments about how it seems some fans have a horrible attention span. I personally don't think we've seen the last of the CM Punk that everyone thought was so amazing character wise but I do think he's trying to find a way to balance his character out given the fact that now he's no longer the guy getting overlooked not getting on magazine's etc. He's the world champion, he's no longer being overlooked, etc. I look at it the same way I look at when a music artist is on the come up and gets labeled underrated and such. Then when they have success it's kind of hard to do music about the same stuff you were talking about when you weren't successful.

I think that is what we are seeing with Punk trying to find a in between being the against the system guy and now being apart of that system given his success. Hence why a few weeks ago with the promo he did against Johnny we saw that same Punk we saw in the summer. But then he goes off base with the Cena like jokes and doesn't look right with him cause it isn't him. So I just think he needs to find a great balance to where he can still be that same against the system guy just apply it differently given his position in the company.

 

[Brock Lesnar]

I get why people see him as a face. He's not, but I get why people see him as one. He hasn't changed his attitude. He just changed the direction of his attitude to heels. It's the same character, there's nothing groundbreaking. He's not doing a thing different, just insulting different people. The entire run of him being WWE Champion hasn't been memorable at all. The only match that was anything close was the main event of TLC, which people forgot about after it happened. It feels like the WWE Championship has taken a back seat these last few months on RAW. It's about Cena, it's about Kane, it's about John Laurinitis. There's CM Punk, usually in the middle of the card, without a sense of direction. There's nowhere for him to go... so they started the Wrestlemania program with Jericho way too early.

It's why I enjoyed him better as a heel, as a guy who took shit from no one and his loyalty lied with nobody. It really looks bad when he gives Triple H and John Cena props, because you just know that it's not supposed to be like that. It doesn't look right. It doesn't feel right.

Punk is a terrific wrestler, he's got what it takes. But if they don't feed him something good, something that solidifies his place on the top for years to come (like this wrestle mania program with Jericho should if they play the cards right) then I'm afraid he's going to back to jobbing to Orton and Rey Mysterio.

 

[PY.]

He's not, but I get why people see him as one. He hasn't changed his attitude.

Difference is he doesn't take jabs at the crowd anymore like he used too.

The entire run of him being WWE Champion hasn't been memorable at all.

Who had a better run chasing and capturing the WWE Championship in 2011? Easily CM Punk.

so they started the Wrestlemania program with Jericho way too early.

That's because that's their money feud. His mini feud with Ziggler was just a filler. No one should of even thought Ziggler was going to win that match.

It really looks bad when he gives Triple H and John Cena props, because you just know that it's not supposed to be like that. It doesn't look right. It doesn't feel right

He constatly states he and Trips don't get along, and only told Cena he didn't dislike him. How is that giving either one of them props?

 

[Prodigy]

I get why people see him as a face. He's not, but I get why people see him as one. He hasn't changed his attitude. He just changed the direction of his attitude to heels. It's the same character, there's nothing groundbreaking. He's not doing a thing different, just insulting different people. The entire run of him being WWE Champion hasn't been memorable at all. The only match that was anything close was the main event of TLC, which people forgot about after it happened. It feels like the WWE Championship has taken a back seat these last few months on RAW. It's about Cena, it's about Kane, it's about John Laurinitis. There's CM Punk, usually in the middle of the card, without a sense of direction. There's nowhere for him to go... so they started the Wrestlemania program with Jericho way too early.

It's why I enjoyed him better as a heel, as a guy who took shit from no one and his loyalty lied with nobody. It really looks bad when he gives Triple H and John Cena props, because you just know that it's not supposed to be like that. It doesn't look right. It doesn't feel right.

Punk is a terrific wrestler, he's got what it takes. But if they don't feed him something good, something that solidifies his place on the top for years to come (like this wrestle mania program with Jericho should if they play the cards right) then I'm afraid he's going to back to jobbing to Orton and Rey Mysterio.

So basically you're saying he's just like Randy Orton?

 

[Deezy]

Well, that is what happens when all you care about is your "entertainment" that is in front of you, on your TV. If you cant match the numbers with what you think you are seeing, then what you might be seeing is fake, in terms of someone being a financial draw. This is why it is important to care about the business side and understand it, so you wont be shocked when an IWC guy can't bring in new business. They never pan out, and they never will. So like him if you want, but don't ever hold him to the standard of being a financial draw.

I have been telling people since June that Punk can't carry a company. The optics on him are not good. And being "the best wrestler in the world" doesn't mean shitt in the land of sports entertainment.

If he feels he is the best in ring preformer, i don't think he is watching Randy Orton. Get a Clue!

I honestly have no fucking clue what point you are trying to make here. You are crunching about 5 different viewpoints in a jumbled mess.

Can't someone just say I enjoy watching someone and leave it at that? Guess not.

Keeping a keen interest in financial and ratings draw is paramount becuase if they start dwindling in those aspects, then what the fuck are you going to watch when the networks stop airing it? Get you fandom out of your ass.

 

[Chadillac]

I honestly have no fucking clue what point you are trying to make here. You are crunching about 5 different viewpoints in a jumbled mess.

Can't someone just say I enjoy watching someone and leave it at that? Guess not.

Keeping a keen interest in financial and ratings draw is paramount becuase if they start dwindling in those aspects, then what the fuck are you going to watch when the networks stop airing it? Get you fandom out of your ass.

What I just bolded was the entire point of my post that you just quoted. Did you just read one line and your immature impulse made you mouth off so quick before you even could read what I wrote? Grow up.

 

[Deezy]

What I just bolded was the entire point of my post that you just quoted. Did you just read one line and your immature impulse made you mouth off so quick before you even could read what I wrote? Grow up.

Would be able to read if you didn't just throw together a mess of half thoughts, but whatever, you're the one making leaps here, all I said was I enjoyed Punk. You seemed to have took it as a slight against everyone else.

Get a clue? Grow up? Funny how I'm the immature one here.

 

[The Cork]

Unless you're a shareholder in the WWE, I have no idea why you'd be so concerned about whos drawing and who isn't.

 

[PHX]

Closest I ever really care about that stuff is me simply wanting to see Punk or one of my other favorites succeed. Besides that I don't really care and it has zero barring on my like or dislike of the product.

 

[Big Red Jericho Punk]

Great discussion here fellas and i'll end it up on this. Dale is a very bright guy but for any jackass or idiot or asshole that thought Punk's shoot was boring, don't talk to me ever again. That was probably the best thing i've seen anyone in a very long time possibly since attitude era. If you didn't like that shoot, don't ever talk to me about wrestling or don't watch wrestling because your spoiled brat that knows shit. That is some of the most absurd things i've ever heard and the fact that Dale just said really pissed me off. God I hate wrestling fans sometimes, well except some of you bright ones.

 

[Dale]

Great discussion here fellas and i'll end it up on this. Dale is a very bright guy but for any jackass or idiot or asshole that thought Punk's shoot was boring, don't talk to me ever again. That was probably the best thing i've seen anyone in a very long time possibly since attitude era. If you didn't like that shoot, don't ever talk to me about wrestling or don't watch wrestling because your spoiled brat that knows shit. That is some of the most absurd things i've ever heard and the fact that Dale just said really pissed me off. God I hate wrestling fans sometimes, well except some of you bright ones.

I never said I didn't enjoy it did I? Yeah I hate wrestling fans like you aswell who claim people don't know shit or are idiots because they don't share the same opinion as you. Get a grip of yourself.

 

[Chadillac]

Unless you're a shareholder in the WWE, I have no idea why you'd be so concerned about whos drawing and who isn't.

Sure is funny everytime I bring up how WWE is really a business, somebody has to allways play the "We are to dumb to be concerned with that" card. Then you go on to rave about somebody's T shirt sales. I see it from just about everyone. Just Chad can't talk about business. Especially if facts get in the way of what you like to think. What are Facts? Ah screw them, all that matters is how great Punk's "Pipe Bomb" was.

All the rest of that stuff, like why the WWE doesn't trust him to close out Raw? You can explain that without facts huh? Or did that descision derive from some business data some where? All of it derives from the business data. So if facts don't mean anything to you, no wonder people can't figure out why Punk is dying down. So lets start a whole thread about it.

Actually I could solve that answer, but business and facts dont mean anything. Nevermind