Dave Meltzer WM Ratings...

[CenaMark54]

^^^^Well now he is an MMA expert. At some point he will stop covering wrestling altogether when he begins to think he is above it.

 

[John]

my ratings:
-Finlay vs. John Bradshaw Layfield: **
-CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. MVP vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. John Morrison vs. Carlito vs. Shelton Benjamin: ****
-Batista vs. Umaga: ***
-Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels: *****
-Ashley & Maria vs. Beth Phoenix & Melina: * 1/2
-Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. HHH: **** 1/2
-Floyd Mayweather vs. Big Show: *1/4
-Edge vs. The Undertaker: ****

 

[TrayBlaylock]

The biggest mark of them all, rates WrestleMania, cool. lol

 

[C4]

Flair vs HBK was not a 5 star match.

I don't get why people keep saying it is. Sure there was a lot of emotion and it was Flairs last match for now. Because of those things people are overrating it.

I agree, it wasn't anything special and was like every other match on the card that night. In fact, it was slow paced and had a lot of emotion involved nothing else other than that.

Sure, the ending was perfectly portrayed with the "I'm sorry, I love you" sweet chin music and then the kiss to the forehead but let's go back and look at the match in reverse magnitude. Shawn Michaels falls over to the announcers table that was pretty good, Flair's cross body wasn't perfect but at least after so many years he succeeded in the move and connected. What else is there? Chops, suplexs, back body drops and everything else that Flair and Shawn used to do in their other regular matches.

Sure, both of them did something innovative and tried 1 or 2 unique moves but overall the match wasn't that great except the storyline. And that's why I don't see a reason why many people say that it's a five star "wrestling" match when it wasn't really that ecstatic :yeahright:

 

[Beer Money Army]

^It'd be much easier if you used the 5 star system, out of 10 makes it confusing. On top of that this isn't the post your WM review here thread, there is a thread for that. This is just a single guys review, who some would call one of the better wrestling analysts out there, so that's why it's in the new section.

dave is alright.. But J.D. Dunn from 411mania reviews are better than Dave in my books..

here is his review

March 30, 2008


Live from Orlando, Fla.


Your hosts are Jim Ross, Jerry Lawler, Joey Styles, Tazz, Michael Cole and Jonathan Coachman.



First of all, big-ass crowd. It looks like there are plenty of bad seats, though… especially by the pyro.


Opening Match, Belfast Brawl: Fit Finlay (w/Hornswoggle) vs. John Bradshaw Layfield.
Odd choice for the opener. Finlay has Hornswoggle with him. Sadly, no little crutches or anything. Bradshaw intercepts Finlay as he gets in the ring. Plunder gets involved, and Finlay blocks a piledriver on the steps. Finlay fights back with the Belfast cookie sheet. Hornswoggle provides a brief distraction, and Finlay nails JBL with the shillelagh. JBL tumbles to the floor, though, so Finlay is unable to cover. Finlay sets up a table, but JBL ducks to the floor and slaps his midget. Finlay is pissed, so he grabs JBL by the head and repeated slams him into the announce table. "DON'T (SLAM) YOU (SLAM) EVER (SLAM) TOUCH (SLAM) MY (SLAM) LEPRECHAUN!" Finlay decides it would be a fine idea to try a suicida, but JBL hauls off and nails him with a trashcan lid like A-Rod knocking one out of the park. Although Rodriguez tends to use a baseball bat. Back in, JBL again gets distracted by Hornswoggle, so Finlay gives him the Finlay Roll and tosses him into the table. JBL resourcefully grabs a Kendo stick, smashes Finlay's knee, and finishes him with the Clothesline from Hell at 8:38. Disappointing, considering this is the blowoff-by-proxy of the months-long McMahon paternity angle. So all of that – the limo retread, the lawsuit, the mysterious woman, the search for McMahon's bastard, the teasing of Kennedy, implied incest between McMahon and Melina, implied incest between HHH and Stephanie, Coachman-as-Povich, the revelation of Hornswoggle (the Little Bastard, get it?!), the mysterious "deal" with Finlay, the secret that Finlay wants no one to know, the unfathomable inclusion into the angle of JBL all leads to… this? I don't fault JBL or Finlay, but that's not really a lot of bang for as much buck as they spent over the last several months. And do we ever find out what the deal was between Vince and Finlay? The implication was that Vince was willing to reveal that Finlay was Hornswoggle's real father, but Vince had to be clued into that by JBL, so there must be *some* other secret Finlay is hiding. The match was two guys beating the crap out of each other, which was pretty much what we were promised, but I expected them to go for the epic booking here with Vince involved and the father-son duo being ripped apart or something. **1/4


KK (the one with the big ass and sex tape) interviews KK (the one that says his name twice) about the MitB. Kim Kardashian actually does a decent job – at least as good as Maria or Terri Runnels. Plus… have you seen her?!? Hire the woman, Vince!


Money-in-the-Bank Ladder Match: John Morrison vs. CM Punk vs. Carlito vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. MVP vs. Chris Jericho.
Everyone goes for ladders, but MVP looks like a genius, taking the high ground and just waiting for someone to bring one in to him. Then he looks like an idiot because he wipes them all out except Jericho and turns his back on him. Morrison goes suicidal and moonsaults everyone off the top while holding a ladder. The replay shows that he actually completed his flip before he made contact so the ladder didn't add anything to the spot, but it looked cool. Jericho monkeyflips Kennedy, but he lands right on the ladder. Morrison saves, but Shelton sunset flip bombs Kennedy into a superplex on Morrison to wipe them both out. Shelton goes up, but Carlito tips him over. Shelton's all, "I'M THE GODDAMN SPIDER-MAN, BITCH!" and lands on the top rope. He tries to springboard back to the ladder, but the ladder gives way. Punk gives him the Go2Sleep anyway. Kennedy grabs Punk and Finlay Rolls him on the ladder. OUCH! MVP misses a Yakuza Kick and gets his knee cut out from under him. Shelton goes up, but Kennedy and Carlito team up to tip him out of the ring onto a ladder that's been stretched across the apron. Carlito's "Ooooh, I think I can go to jail for that!" look is awesome. Won't be seein' Shelton no more. Jericho puts Morrison in the Walls of Jericho on the ladder, which is stupid even in a one-on-one ladder match, but in this context all it does is keep him from stopping Kennedy from going up. Thankfully, Kennedy hangs around like a doofus and lets Jericho free himself so he can stop Kennedy from grabbing the briefcase. Carlito takes out Jericho with the Backstabber off the ladder. MVP is the only one left with all his faculties, so he casually goes up. Oh, but here's MATT FREAKIN' HARDY! Hardy gives MVP a Twist of Fate off the ladder to avenge his injury and put MVP out of the match. Two of the ladders get stuck together in a weird way allowing Morrison to go up. He gets tipped over and crotches himself. Won't be seein' him no more either. Jericho goes up, but Punk scurries up and keeps him from reaching the briefcase. They brawl until Jericho falls backwards and gets hung up in the ladder. That allows Punk to go up and grab the case at 13:57. As matches strung together by nothing but crazy spots go, this is about as good as you can get. No real storyline or flow to speak of, but the spots and return of Hardy made this highly exciting. Punk is the right choice here as Jericho, Kennedy, and MVP are already at the stage of their careers where they don't need a gimmick to get them a title match. ***3/4


Howard Finkel introduces the WWE Hall of Fame Class of 2008. Mike Graham making Mae Young keep her clothes on is pretty funny. Won't see that in Canton.


Snoop Dogg bonds with Festus and Mick Foley. He rings a bell, and Festus chases off Santino Marella. Mick debuts Sockizzle.


Freddie Prinze Jr. is in the crowd. I'm disappointed in the lack of Gellar.


Raw vs. Smackdown: Batista vs. Umaga.
They slug it out early, which is a good idea. I think if I saw someone trying a lockup in this match, I'd be pissed. Batista steamrolls Umaga and shoulderblocks him to the floor. Back in, Umaga hits a spinning wheel kick and a straight foot to the face. The drunken frat boy contingent starts a pro-Umaga chant as he locks in a nerve hold. A diving headbutt misses, but Batista can't pick him up for a slam. Umaga goes back to the nerve hold and gets two off the Samoan Drop. Batista blocks the Samoan Spike and launches Umaga into the post. That leads to a spinebuster and a sloppy Demonbomb for the win at 7:08. This was every 1980s power match rolled into one. It was like Haku vs. Hercules where 80-percent of the match is the heel doing boring offense before the babyface makes a comeback. *3/4


Recap of Kane winning the #1 Contender's Battle Royal.


ECW Heavyweight Title: Chavo Guerrero vs. Kane.
LOOK OUT! HE'S RIGHT BEHIND—nevermind. Chokeslam and we have a new champ at 0:12. I'm not looking forward to the next few months' worth of Kane vs. Big Daddy V matches. Good for Kane, though, as he's been a glorified jobber for a while now. 1/4*


We get a WrestleMania commercial… during WrestleMania.


Raven Symone thanks the WWE for helping out the Make-a-Wish Foundation.


Mike Adamle asks Ric Flair what his game plan is for tonight. Flair's response: To be 'The Man.' Awesome. He sums up a 30+ year career in just four words and everyone who ever watched him says, "I totally get it."


Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair.
So, if Flair loses, he has to retire. If he does have to retire, at least he picked the right goddamned robe to go out with. That's magnificent. They go hold for hold early on with some rudimentary stuff. Flair backs Shawn into the corner and shoves him for calling Flair "Old Yeller," so Shawn slaps him. Tonight the part of Ricky Steamboat will be played by Shawn Michaels. They chop it out. Flair punts him and drops the knee to the eyes. Shawn blocks a charge and goes up, but Flair catches him. ROLE REVERSAL~! Flair gets two off a crossbody (!), but Shawn shoves him to the floor off a figure-four attempt. Shawn tries a springboard moonsault, but Flair ducks out of the way, and Shawn CRASHES into the announce table. Sickening. Back in, Flair gets a few two counts. Flair hits a suplex and starts tattooing Shawn with chops. Fantastic commentary by Lawler as he turns the "Old Yeller" setup on its ear by reminding everyone that they didn't kill Old Yeller because he was old; they killed him because he was rabid. Shawn hits a neckbreaker to come back. Flair gets knocked to the floor, so Shawn tries another moonsault. This one hits, and they tease a double countout. Back in, Shawn comes back with his usual and tunes up the band. He stops short on Sweet Chin Music, though, so Flair opportunistically scoops up his legs and slaps on the figure-four. They go into the bridge sequence, but Shawn can't bridge up. I know they got some flack from fans for "botching" that, but if you ever watch Brisco-Funk or Tsuruta-Bockwinkle, they actually spend minutes in that position without bridging up, so thank your lucky stars. Shawn sunset flips Flair off a shinbreaker attempt. That gets two. A small package gets two more, but Flair clips the knee and goes back to the figure-four! Shawn is reeling! He… just makes… the ropes, though. Flair stops to strut, so Shawn hits Sweet Chin Music out of nowhere. He can't cover immediately, though, and only gets two. Shawn starts tuning up the band, but Flair isn't getting up. Shawn hauls him up, so Flair simply grabs the ref and goes low. Ha ha! Awesome. ONE, TWO, THRE-NO! Shawn locks in his own version of the figure-four, drawing the ire of the crowd. Flair makes the ropes, though, and thumbs Shawn in the eye for good measure. They chop it out with Flair winning, but Shawn hits Sweet Chin Music, again out of nowhere. Shawn won't cover, though, and backs off to the corner to tune up the band. Flair tearfully staggers to his feet and tells Shawn to bring on sweet career oblivion. Shawn, also crying, mouths, "I'm sorry. I love you." BANG! Flair goes down, and Shawn covers for the win at 20:24. The replay reveals an almost Obi-Wan-like moment with Flair lowering his guard and just letting it come. Spine-tingling finish. Okay, so maybe the content of the match is only around ***1/2, but wrestling is storytelling, and storytelling is all about context. This was ***** storytelling. ***1/2 content. ***** context. I'll split the difference and call it ****1/4, but honestly… does it matter?


After the match, a tearful Flair thanks his family, takes his final bow, and walks the long walk back to the locker room.


Edge talks about losing his innocence thanks to Hulk Hogan. Um, not as dirty as it sounds. He promises to give Undertaker fans a reality check.


BunnyMania Lumberjill Match: Ashley & Maria vs. Beth Phoenix & Melina (w/Santino Marella).
Snoop Dogg is your special announcer. He takes a spot on a throne at ringside so he can watch up close. This was... um, the exact opposite of the last match. It doesn't help that the babyface team is made up of two Diva Search chicks with next to no experience in the ring. Even worse: Maria, for whatever reason, sells NOTHING. She's like Mariataker. Thankfully, the lights go out. Maria actually gets in position to pin Beth Phoenix cleanly (after months of building Beth up as a monstress). Santino interferes, though. Lawler gets up and clocks Santino. Beth gives Maria the Fisherman's Buster at 7:57. Snoop looks like he smoked a bowl just before coming out, which he probably did. Santino mocks Maria, but Snoopy the Dog clotheslines him and makes out with Maria right in front of him. Sensual seduction indeed. Chicks looked hot. That's the only redeeming factor here. 1/4*


WWE Heavyweight Title, Triple Threat: Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H.
Cena gets played down to the ring by a marching band, which is cooler in theory than in practice. Slugfest to start as both babyfaces take turns slugging Orton. HHH catches him in a sleeper, but Cena sneaks in for a double FU. HHH wisely just lets the hold go and kicks him in the gut. Orton jumps HHH with the Stretch Backbreaker (called an inverted atomic drop by JR). HHH breaks up a superplex, and he and Orton team up for a Crossbody Doomsday Device. Cena rolls through into the FU, but Hunter breaks it up long enough for Orton to slip off his shoulder. Orton hits double rope-assisted DDTs and sets up for the RKO. Cena tosses him onto HHH, though, and hits the Sicilian Slice. Randy scurries away from the STFU and posts Cena. HHH catches Orton and hits the kneebreaker in the ropes. Cena returns and provides just enough distraction to HHH for Orton to hit the RKO. Cena locks in the STFU, but Hunter helps Orton to the ropes. HHH tosses Cena and applies the Indian Deathlock on Orton, but now Cena saves, tosses HHH and reapplies the STFU. HHH breaks that and turns it into a Crossface on Cena. Cena makes the ropes. He blocks a Pedigree but runs into a spinebuster. Orton is getting back in the ring, so Hunter stops to clip his knee. That gives Cena the opening to go for the FU. Hunter blocks and hits the Pedigree, but Orton punts him in the head and steals the pin at 14:10. This was the right decision creatively. I just never thought they'd do it. Orton gets a decent pop because he really was the also-ran in his own title defense. The match was even booked as such with each babyface taking turns beating the holy Hell out of Orton and him getting in a move only when someone's back was turned. Good booking there. ***1/2


Boxer vs. Wrestler: Floyd Mayweather (w/Mayweatherettes) vs. The Big Show.
Show is the clear babyface here, which is probably not how they envisioned this when it was signed. It works, though. It's like David vs. Goliath if David was an arrogant bitch. Floyd stops to get a drink from his chalice. What a great heel move. And he's probably not even trying to get heat. Show yanks in his water boy and chops him in the chest. Floyd tries to choke him out Cary Elwes-style, but Show flips him over and stomps on his arm. Mayweather's Rocky V-ish manager objects, so Show just starts stepping on Mayweather to the delight of the crowd. Floyd's entourage decides to get him the hell out of there. Show tracks them down and drags Floyd back to the ring. Floyd's homeys buy Floyd enough time to recover and hit Show with a chair. That staggers Show enough for Floyd to take off some of his homey's bling bling and knock Show out with it at 11:36. This accomplished all it was supposed to, although I question how boxing fans will look at Mayweather after this. Ross calls him 40-0 as if this somehow counts towards WBC standings or something. I know a lot of people were disappointed with the inclusion of Emmanuel Lewis here, but it's not like they had to sacrifice one of the many fine classics the Big Show usually puts on a WrestleMania. In fact, this is one of his better Mania performances. **1/4


WrestleMania XXV will be in Texas at Reliant Stadium. Well, the last trip to Texas yielded pretty good results.


Kim Kardashian (POPOZAO!) announces a new Citrus Bowl attendance record.


World Heavyweight Title: The Undertaker vs. Edge (w/Vickie Guerrero).
Interesting-but-not-really stat. The Undertaker has defeated all four members of Evolution at WrestleMania. Taker clotheslines Edge over the top early on. Back in, he hits a flying clothesline (VINTAGE UNDERTAKER!). Taker hits a weird sort of knee and tumbles over the top. I guess Edge was supposed to move out of the way. Edge knocks him off the apron (MASTER MANIPULATOR!) and hits a neckbreaker on him against the ropes. Back in, Edge spears Taker into the corner. Taker tries to slam him but collapses. He catches Edge going up and simply shoves him to the floor. He follows that up with his once-a-year over-the-top suicide dive. Taker hits the guillotine legdrop (VINTAGE UNDERTAKER!) for two. He can't lift Edge for the Last Ride, so Edge boots him for two (ULTIMATE OPPORTUNIST!). Edge knocks Taker to the floor (MACHIAVELLIAN-LIKE!). Wow, two Coleisms in less that :20. He really brought his A-game. Back in, Edge grabs a half-crab, but Taker reverses to a small package for two. Edge stays on top with a double anklelock (ULTIMATE OPPORTUNIST!). Edge and Taker slug it out (BEST PURE STRIKER IN SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT!). Taker hits a Snake Eyes, but Edge cuts off the big boot with a dropkick (ULTIMATE OPPORTUNIST!). Edge blocks a chokeslam and turns a second try into the Edgecution! ONE, TWO, THR-NO! Edge goes for the Spear, but Taker blocks and CHOKESLAMS HIM! ONE, TWO, THRE-NO! Taker goes for the Old School Ropewalk Forearm, but Edge crotches him and delivers the SUPERPLEX! ONE, TWO, THRE-NO! Edge mounts Taker for the corner pummel, but Taker counters to the Last Ride. Edge slips over him and hits a neckbreaker. Taker catches him with the Last Ride on a second try. ONE, TWO, THRE-NO! Taker goes for the Tombstone, but Edge slips over his shoulder and hits the Edge-o-Matic (ULTIMATE OPPORTUNIST!) for two. Taker finally hits the Old School Ropewalk Forearm, but he tries to add a boot and bumps the ref. Edge hits the Inverted DDT (MASTER MANIPULATOR & ULTIMATE OPPORTUNIST!!!). No ref, though. Edge stops to talk trash and has to kick Undertaker in the crotch to counter a chokeslam. Edge grabs a camera from ringside and smashes it into Taker's head. No ref. Edge goes for the Tombstone, but Taker reverses and hits his own. Charles Robinson sprints in all the way from Tallahassee, but by the time he gets there, Edge is able to kick out. Hawkins & Ryder run down, but Taker quickly dispatches them. Taker turns around into the SPEAR! ONE, TWO, THRE-NO! A second weaker spear puts the Undertaker down, but he scissors Edge's head and applies the Gogoplata for the tapout at 23:51. The match told a great story with Edge (THE ULTIMATE OPPORTUNIST!) wrestling a smart match, always one step ahead of the Undertaker's usual moves, but of course, the Undertaker is superhuman, so even Edge's best game wasn't good enough. New interesting stat: Undertaker ties Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin for most World Title wins at WrestleMania (3 each). ***3/4


So, just to recap the Michael Cole Boxscore:

(6) – "ULTIMATE OPPORTUNIST"
(2) – "MASTER MANIPULATOR"
(2) – "VINTAGE UNDERTAKER"
(1) – "MACHIAVELLIAN-LIKE"
(1) – "BEST PURE STRIKER"
(0) – NAMES FOR UNDERTAKER'S FINISHER

Why do I bring it up? Because two guys just gave a hell of a performance, and it was nearly ruined by hacky commentary. Twelve Michael Cole catchphrases referring to these guys but once Taker turns Edge over into the finishing move he's been using for weeks in the main event of the biggest event of the year the best Cole can come up with is "there's that move!" If you haven't come up with a marketable name, just call it a "gogoplata." I'd be equally critical of Joe Buck if he were calling the Super Bowl and said, "Tom Brady rolls right. Looks down the field. Scrambles. He has a man open! Brady throws! Caught by… 'that guy' for a touchdown!"

The 411: The show has a lot of good stuff in there. Both title matches were just fine, although not the MOTYC some people are touting them as. I will call Flair's retirement match a MOTYC more for the aura, meaning, and storyline than the actual match. In fact, one could make a strong argument that Flair riding off into the sunset would have made a stronger finish for the PPV than the Undertaker's win. And that, I think, is the biggest problem I have with this show. Had they rearranged the matches a bit to build to a climax, it might have felt less plodding (and, at 4+ hours with the preshow, that's a lot of plod). I like Edge, but he just doesn't feel big time, and maybe that's because he hasn't been treated as a big-time performer. The crowd looked pretty listless going into the main event. Part of that may be from the sheer length of the show, but the fact that the match was a foregone conclusion didn't help. There's enough here to earn the show a recommendation, especially with the atmosphere, but sometimes less is more (especially where fireworks are concerned).


in small results

finlay/jbl ** 1/4
MITB *** 3/4
batista/Umaga * 3/4
chavo/kane 1/4 *
hbk/flair **** 1/4 (his write of this match is good review as he breaks it down)
divas 1/4*
3 way *** 1/2
show/floyd ** 1/4
taker/edge *** 3/4

 

[Headfirst For Hardcore]

I don't like Meltzer, so I don't really follow his star ratings. What he says was a 3 star match could be a 4 star match in someone else's opinion. He's a fan of older Japanese men, so I understand why he gave WM the ratings he did.