CM Punk Documentary [spoilers]

[Mick Donalds]

Totally agree, Mick. I was just thinking about putting the Itchin' for a Jay 'CM Punk Best in the World Documentary' episode special that comes out on October 9th right here on Wrestlingsmarks... on VHS. It would work because you could listen to it in the background while doing Pilates or running on the Treadmill... right in the comfort of your old school living room that probably has a couch cover on your couch right next to the dusty pictures of 1930's lifestyle.

When did you see the inside of my trailer? Did I show you my Midnight Rider poster in my bathroom? The Techno Team 2000 toothbrush collection I own?

 

[Dale]

I never used to understand the 'Punk Haters' before and what they were talking about, but jeez I can totally see where they come from now. Having your opinion tossed aside as meaningless or being told you're not a wrestling fan if you didn't enjoy the DVD ranks right towards the top of douchebaggeryness. At least we actually have a balanced Punk fan in PHX ARN though, so not all bad.

Onto the actual DVD though, I thought it was good but i'm not rating it as high as others are rating. Honestly, I thought it was pretty much on par with most of the documentaries WWE do, or at least the ones i've seen anyway. I honestly think it missed a narrator because it seemed to take some significant jumps in time throughout the DVD.

As far as the selfishness stuff goes, I can totally see and understand that. There was a lot of poor me, I should have this and I should have that stuff in there, but it's a dog eat dog world so you do need that selfish and egotistical side too.

 

[Brock Lesnar]

When did you see the inside of my trailer? Did I show you my Midnight Rider poster in my bathroom? The Techno Team 2000 toothbrush collection I own?

Mick! Of course I saw the inside of your trailer. You invited me in for a beer, but you were already shitfaced so you probably don't remember. I was telling you all about the CM Punk documentary and how October 9th it was going to be a huge episode on the one of a kind podcast "Itchin' for a Jay" that appears every two weeks on wrestlingsmarks; talking about CM Punk's entire career top to bottom. From the Indys to the Big Leagues. You promised that you would listen, Mick. No! You swore on your 24 pack of Pasbt Blue Ribbon that you would listen! You told me that night that if it was the last thing you did before you died, you would pass a happy man. Mick, I hope you still mean all that.

 

[TKK]

I have to say this, this is one of the best WWE DVDs I've ever watched. I was really impressed by how far they went into his independent career, I didn't expect it at all. It was also great to see Colt Cabana and others on the DVD.

If you're looking for stories from him, this isn't the DVD for you. Look up his RF Shoot or his Shoot with Samoa Joe.

If anybody wants a YouTube link, message me.

 

[Undertaker]

Huh? What are you talking about he doesn't even use the straight-edge persona right now. No one in the company right now has changed and reinvented himself like he has. Started with the face version of straight edge character and also had a smart ass face aspect to him as he went on, then the underdog character from his ECW reign to his first WHC reign, then did the straight edge heel, then turned the straight-edge gimmick into religion brainwasher who acted like he was a evil jesus, transitioned into manipulator character with Nexus, of course became the anti WWE rebel during Summer Of Punk, toned that down to transition into a his tweener role starting to get fed up with how he starting to get overshadowed and then of course now we have the full fledged heel who will do anything to get his respect. Guy has went through about like 8 phases in his 7 year career when you have guys who go multiple years without changing a thing so not seeing how he's stale when he is forever evolving his persona.

And as far as "dropping the ball" if you watched the DVD you'd see it pretty much got admitted that they never gave him the ball. First WHC reign was a pure transition to get the belt to the HBK/Jericho feud and that his 2nd WHC title reign they had no plans for him after his feud with Taker. This isn't me bashing you but to say Punk hasn't evolved past his straight-edge character is flat out ridiculous and doesn't make any sense and doesn't seem like you understand what "having and dropping the ball" means

Fundamentally he has always held onto the 'straight edge' gimmick. I'm sure I can pull together some YouTube videos to prove this but to be honest I'm a bit busy over these next few days. CM Punk's heel character is absolutely awful and that isn't just me hating on him. I really don't understand how week after week you can have a guy who has become so stale that you are now telling him to repeat and regurgitate the same 'respect' promos over and over again.

Wasn't Punk champion the first time round for at least 2-3 months? If his first reign was just a transitional period and they wanted to pass the belt around why wouldn't he have been told this when he first won the belt? Why was he told when he got to the arena at the Unforgiven PPV?. Also, to have your champion go out in that sort of way suggests that they didn't care how he lost the belt, they just wanted it off him. That too me suggests that creative and Vince McMahon both new that they had given the belt to the wrong person and he wasn't ready which is why they had to go to Plan B in Chris Jericho and Shawn Michaels (which was actually one of the best feuds of all time). Dropping the ball means to make a mistake and in turn ruining what you had or in Punk's case what he was presented with twice.

In all honesty I just don't like Punk and my view was enhanced by watching his documentary.

 

[PHX]

I've been a long time fan of his and have seen damn near all of his career so finding videos to prove whatever point would be a big waste of time on your part. Him being straight edge is part of who he is not just a gimmick so of course it always apart of him. It's the most unique character in wrestling so it would be dumb of him to not use it when need be. But as far as using it apart of a feud and his character he hasn't did that since the feud with Jericho. As for his current character if you dislike it that is your right but to say it's stale is silly. It's apart of his character and a long term storyline they're pushing. You can't have the storyline be about a heel wanting his rightful respect and obsessed with getting it then all of a sudden stop talking about it so it won't get "stale" repetition has and always will be apart of pro wrestling. Would think looking at your favorite wrestler list you would understand that aspect since everyone on it did some repetitive in their character/promos. Now there is instances where it can truly become stale if the same thing goes on with no progress for long extended periods of time but Punk character is not in that class.

And yes that is what dropping the ball means but THEY dropped the ball with him it wasn't him dropping the ball like you said. They change their mind and come up with booking decisions on the spot all the time. They could have just wanted the feud with HBK/Jericho to be non title for a little but and then to extend it add the title to it when the time was right. Whether they realized they gave him the belt too soon or whatever either way it was on them not Punk since it was their decision and did the best he could with what he was given and considering it was obvious it was never their plan to run with Punk as a main eventer at that time. Not that it matters anyways it worked out in the end.

 

[TKK]

Just thought that I would add that I am completely with PHX in this discussion. Saying that Punk hasn't evolved since 2006 is laughable, he has evolved tremendously throughout his WWE career:

Stage 1 - Edgy, determined competitor, straight edge.
Stage 2 - Sanctimonious straight edge militant (or Straight Edge Jesus as the DVD says)
Stage 3 - Rebellious anti-hero
Stage 4 - Insecure champion seeking recognition from his peers (probably the weakest of all four)

Each stage or gimmick is completely distinguished and shows evolution throughout his career. You take someone like Kofi Kingston or Evan Bourne, that is a character hasn't evolved and probably never will.

 

[Undertaker]

At the end of the day PHX you have your opinion and I have mine. Just like you're a mark for CM Punk I'm a mark for Undertaker so regardless of what opinions and facts are put forward we will forever be disputing them. I think CM Punk is stale and selfish, you think he isn't. As a heel you need to have different elements to your game. Punk should have learnt from Edge. From what I have watched in the DVD it does give the impression that the company were not happy with Punk which is why he was stripped of the title. But I'll go back to my last point. There is no point in going round in circles because its only natural that we will defend our favourites no matter what alternative opinions are put forward. Good debate though.

 

[PHX]

Wasn't really about me debating this out of pure being a Punk mark as it was I just think the term stale gets thrown around entirely too much. If a guy is basically changing or tweaking his character damn near every year in a company where the top guy hasn't changed anything outside of his merch for 7 years straight I just find it asinine to claim he is stale no matter how much you dislike him.

 

[TKK]

By the way, the Undertaker hasn't changed anything since 2004 bar his haircut and marital status.

 

[Mick Donalds]

Mick! Of course I saw the inside of your trailer. You invited me in for a beer, but you were already shitfaced so you probably don't remember. I was telling you all about the CM Punk documentary and how October 9th it was going to be a huge episode on the one of a kind podcast "Itchin' for a Jay" that appears every two weeks on wrestlingsmarks; talking about CM Punk's entire career top to bottom. From the Indys to the Big Leagues. You promised that you would listen, Mick. No! You swore on your 24 pack of Pasbt Blue Ribbon that you would listen! You told me that night that if it was the last thing you did before you died, you would pass a happy man. Mick, I hope you still mean all that.

Ohh man. I must have passed out and forgotten again. I'll make sure I'm sober enough to watch. Now, off to the dumpsters to collect cans for recycle redemption cash so'z I can pay my Internet Bill on my Computer Terminal.

 

[Undertaker]

By the way, the Undertaker hasn't changed anything since 2004 bar his haircut and marital status.

Correct.

Needless to say he is still the greatest wrestler of all time though. At least he doesn't have to go through 6-7 changes through 5 years or so to find a gimmick he's good at. Ever since Mark Callaway was given the gimmick he has never dropped the ball. He has always been the most believeable character within WWE for the past 20+ years. With Callaway's gimmick being the way it is, it's very difficult to change it dramatically. I mean why would you want to change a gimmick which has never got stale and all WWE fans love and respect? Everytime Undertaker's theme hits or his return is imminent the IWC goes mental and WWE spices up. I don't think someone like CM Punk will ever be able to reach Undertaker's level of ability. To be honest I have no idea why I've included Punk in the same sentence as 'Taker because he hasn't got half the ability 'Taker had at his age.

 

[PHX]

Jesus Christ did you really have to make it that obvious that you're being biased as hell? Basically went on about how stale Punk was and supposedly not having depth and now commending Taker for not changing for years and claiming Punk's changes and evolving as a bad thing. Come on now

 

[Undertaker]

Jesus Christ did you really have to make it that obvious that you're being biased as hell?

Well no, I believe I made that point already.

Basically went on about how stale Punk was and supposedly not having depth and now commending Taker for not changing for years and claiming Punk's changes and evolving as a bad thing. Come on now

I haven't commended Undertaker for not changing his gimmick. I believe that I said it is difficult to change up a gimmick which is like Undertaker's. there is no point in fixing something which isn't broken. I do find it odd how CM Punk has added things on to his 'straight edge' gimmick but its like he's not comfortable doing what he's doing as if he constantly feels he needs to change something. On the other hand Undertaker has always given the appearance he's happy with his gimmick. He has had the same gimmick for 20+ years and minus a few attire changes he hasn't had to change a great deal and no matter what a minority of people say he has had the best matches year-on-year for the past four years now. Wrestling isn't just about how many arms bars or full nelsons you can do.

 

[TKK]

Well no, I believe I made that point already.

I haven't commended Undertaker for not changing his gimmick. I believe that I said it is difficult to change up a gimmick which is like Undertaker's. there is no point in fixing something which isn't broken. I do find it odd how CM Punk has added things on to his 'straight edge' gimmick but its like he's not comfortable doing what he's doing as if he constantly feels he needs to change something. On the other hand Undertaker has always given the appearance he's happy with his gimmick. He has had the same gimmick for 20+ years and minus a few attire changes he hasn't had to change a great deal and no matter what a minority of people say he has had the best matches year-on-year for the past four years now. Wrestling isn't just about how many arms bars or full nelsons you can do.

First you said that Punk's stale and hadn't evolved and now have completely changed your point of view, but keeping it in a negative light. Basically, you just don't like CM Punk? You're trying to find holes in everything about him, but are willing to take a blind eye to Taker's old and stale gimmick. If he was popping more than once a year, people would have grown out of it by now. Afterall, you can only do so much with three catchphrases.