AEW All Out 2021 Live Discussion
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The main event, I tuned out of a couple times. Had a slow start and it was a long ppv, but great ending to the match. The table break mishap and the hard af v trigger. Then the top rope OWA.. insane.
Guess we don't make do rate threads for AEW but I decided to watch 4.25 matches of All Out, so I'm just going to re-purpose this thread as my wrestling ramble place. I know I could technically make a thread but I've gone almost 9 years without making one of those, and I'm not changing that for four & a fourth matches. But at least this means I don't have to bother rating all the matches.
So why did I watch so many matches? Answer, CM Punk. Probably my favourite wrestler of all-time, top five at least, and his return match was definitely not something I was going to miss, even if I didn't watch it live. And since I'm going out of my way to watch wrestling, I might as well dip my toes in other matches. Hell, it could've also been Jericho's last match, though I expected him to win, I had to see that. Was always a big fan of Christian, and Omega's always been great the few matches I saw of him, so the main event was an easy sell. Ruby Riot is at the top of the list of women wrestlers WWE horribly misused on the main roster, I couldn't convince myself to watch the full battle royal, especially since I was spoiled on the results but I definitely wanted to see Ruby Soho in action. I don't think I ever seen her win a match before, I just wanted to know what it felt like.
And finally, and firstly, I decided to watch the Women's Championship match because I just needed to find out what a Britt Baker was. If there's any new star born from AEW, it's probably Britt Baker, right? At the very least, I don't think there's anyone I've heard more about than Britt Baker, maybe Orange Cassidy around the start of the match. Popular things aren't popular for no reason, I had to find out myself.
So why did I watch so many matches? Answer, CM Punk. Probably my favourite wrestler of all-time, top five at least, and his return match was definitely not something I was going to miss, even if I didn't watch it live. And since I'm going out of my way to watch wrestling, I might as well dip my toes in other matches. Hell, it could've also been Jericho's last match, though I expected him to win, I had to see that. Was always a big fan of Christian, and Omega's always been great the few matches I saw of him, so the main event was an easy sell. Ruby Riot is at the top of the list of women wrestlers WWE horribly misused on the main roster, I couldn't convince myself to watch the full battle royal, especially since I was spoiled on the results but I definitely wanted to see Ruby Soho in action. I don't think I ever seen her win a match before, I just wanted to know what it felt like.
And finally, and firstly, I decided to watch the Women's Championship match because I just needed to find out what a Britt Baker was. If there's any new star born from AEW, it's probably Britt Baker, right? At the very least, I don't think there's anyone I've heard more about than Britt Baker, maybe Orange Cassidy around the start of the match. Popular things aren't popular for no reason, I had to find out myself.
Turns Out, Britt Baker's a Wrestler
Colour me surprised, I thought she was going to be a toaster strudel flavour. I have to wonder if I'm experiencing Britt Baker wrong for the first time, I'm pretty sure it's the character of Britt Baker that got her over right, because based off this one match, I don't really get the appeal. Don't get me wrong, I don't think she's a bad wrestler or that this was a bad match, but it seemed pretty standard to me? My expectations might've been too high, but this was just fine. Totally acceptable, but completely unremarkable, I think the biggest spot in this match was Orange Cassidy showing emotion to hype Statlander back into the ring. Pretty sure it got the biggest crowd reaction anyway. It was a cool moment, but I didn't expect the highlight of the first Britt Baker match I saw to be Orange Cassidy. I also feel compelled to note that the biggest spot between the two actually wrestling was probably the Canadian Destroyer, a move I kinda hate. I'm one of those grumpy pants.
But What About the Rest of the Women's Roster?
Next I watched the ending of the Women's Battle Royal. Basically starting from the point the fans were chanting Ruby Soho because AEW doesn't like keeping secrets. What I saw of this match, was also fine. Glad Ruby won but it was more the other woman that caught my attention, Thunder Rosa specifically I really liked what little I say. Tay Conti seemed much improved from what I saw in the Mae Young Classic, that's always nice to see.
However there was one major problem I had with what little I saw, they did back-to-back the same elimination. Jade Cargill eliminates someone, gets cocky and poses, and gets eliminated because of it. The next elimination is from Tay Conti, who gets cocky and poses, and gets eliminated because of it. Conti's was extra stupid because she was posing on the apron, at least Cargill was in the ring. Those should not have been so close together with no other eliminations in-between them, it was too repetitive.
Time for a Match I Actually Cared About Going in
I wanted to watch this match for two main reasons. For starters, it might've been Jericho's last match. Considering Jericho has stated in numerous interviews there'll never be a Jericho retirement match, or official last match, I was pretty confident that Jericho was going to walk away the victor, but I did have my doubts, maybe he was just working us all that time? The other reason is similar to Britt Baker, I wanted to see MJF wrestle. Unlike Baker, I've seen several promos from MJF, and the only thing better than his mic work, is his singing voice. I really wanted to see how MJF was in the ring.
And the answer is, MJF is a true heel. I love how much personality was infused within this match, from MJF wiping his ass with Jericho's coat, to the constant thrusting, this is a guy who embodies his character, whether he's cutting a promo or wrestling a match, and I love that. If you remove that aspect from his wrestling, he's still good, one match isn't really enough to judge, but it doesn't matter when the character work elevates everything he's doing. The match itself was really entertaining, and I actually loved the finish. I did admittedly groan when the match cut to Wardlow & Hager but that actually paid off really well, giving a logical explanation for another referee to be out there and correct the BS Heel victory. And Jericho doesn't just get the roll-up victory off of that like I sort of expected, that continued to have an actual match and more decisive conclusion, while still giving MJF plenty of positive talking points afterward. Just great stuff, an excellent match.
However, it wasn't without it's flaws. Jericho just outright throws like a metal stand thing onto MJF, right outside the ring with the referee watching, and it wasn't a disqualification. That really bugged me, especially since it's actually important to the story of the match that disqualifications are on because MJF needs to hid the fact that he hit Jericho with a bat. That's the only complaint I have but I do think it's a big one. Not enough to ruin the match, but it definitely dampens the experience. If I was rating out of 10 like the rate threads, I would've knocked off a full point at least.
The Only Thing More Surreal Than CM Punk Returning to Wrestle, is CM Punk Wrestling in Full Tights
Finally, after seven years, CM Punk has finally returned to wrestling in a match against Darby Allin that I can only describe as boring. Well, considering like five spots were directly lifted from Bret vs. 1-2-3 Kid, I guess I could also describe it as stolen. Strangely, I recall really loving Bret vs. 1-2-3 Kid, yet I was mostly bored throughout this encounter with Punk & Darby. I'm not willing to re-watch Bret vs. Kid, but I suspect that's because it felt more like an actual build and less like, it's been ten minutes we can start wrestling for real now. It was odd, it almost felt to me like Punk was wrestling like a heel. All his offense in the beginning was just rest holds, keeping the match at incredibly slow pace, and then he was just outright willing to take a count-out victory? I don't really get it. And I don't inherently mind a slow pace if it builds up, but like I said, I didn't really feel like this match really escalated properly. Maybe the slow parts were too slow and long and the faster paced content was over too quickly. Or maybe I just expected too much. Honestly for the first ten or whatever minutes, the only thing keeping me awake was Darby's insane bumping. Like dear god, when Punk whipped him into the corner and Darby torpedoed out of the ring, I was dialing an ambulance myself.
But that aside, when things got going they were great and I don't it's was noticeable that Punk hadn't wrestled for seven years. Every move he hit felt and looked crisp, that calf kick in particular. I don't think this was a bust in terms of showcasing that Punk's "still got it", which is arguably the only thing that matters, even if I didn't really like the match itself. Of the four full matches I saw, this was easily the least enjoyable.
That DQ Problem from MJF/Jericho Sure was Unfortunate, Hope That Doesn't Cameo in the Main Event
This was an excellent main event, with only one problem, they invited the DQ Problem from earlier. This one isn't as egregious as the earlier one since it's not all that integral to later moments in the match that disqualification is very much a thing, but it was still annoying. So early on, Kenny Omega has Don Callis distract the referee so he can stomp a table into Christian, in a really cool spot. Despite going through all that effort to make that spot hidden from the referee, Omega & Callis then basically immediately set-up a table right in front of the referee's eyes. And that table is of course, later broken right in front of the referee's eyes, with both man constantly trying to put the other through it without any regard for the referee watching the whole thing. I wouldn't even mind this if it wasn't for the fact that they went through the effort to sneakily do the first table spot, what the hell is the point when tables clearly aren't grounds for disqualification. Is it because Kenny attacked the table in the first spot, because that would be a really stupid distinction to me. It's just dumb, at least keep it consistent.
But otherwise this was a fantastic main event. Things immediately were happening, the action was so quickly engaging and it built up it well. I actually loved the apron table fake-out spots. I loved how it basically started off with the most devastating option, being the tiger suplex, and progressively got more and more tame with each counter attempt. Not being sarcastic, it still felt like escalation since it was switching over to finishers, but because the moves were becoming less dangerous, that it made it all the more plausible that they'd do it. I actually though we might get the One Winged Angel through the table there for example, and it's because they started with the least believable option, the Tiger Suplex, thereby making each subsequent suggestion more and more plausible, increasing the drama and excitement. The finish was absolutely brilliant too, the top rope One Winged Angel was the climax of the match, it felt like the biggest move and it was. Sometimes the biggest spot isn't the finish, here it was, and it worked well.
And of course, Adam Cole and Bryan Danielson (that's going to take some getting use to ngl), showing up afterwards was great too. Once Adam Cole came out, I kinda knew Bryan was soon to follow, definitely by the time he revealed he was siding with the Elite, still though, Cole was an actual surprise. I mean, it was obvious he'd wind up in AEW but I definitely didn't expect it to be this soon, I was just expecting Bryan.
I Hate the Three C's: Commentary, Crowd, & Chocolate
Let's start with the least controversial, commentary. There were fine moments of commentary were it didn't actively detract from the experience, but I miss two man commentary teams, and some of JR's lines felt like they were lifted directly from Smackdown vs. Raw 2007. There were at least two lines that felt more like audio clips pulled from the video games inserted into the match rather than genuine commentary. I don't know if anyone else felt that but my other major problem with commentary was how much they were praising the show. Like, I'm pretty sure it was during the lull after the table spot in the main event, but rather than talking about the main event itself, the commentators were instead recapping the show and saying how awesome it was. I'm sorry, this is the AEW World Championship on the line, these two guys are killing each-other, why are you talking about Ruby Soho's debut during it? I know they're selling so not much is going on to comment on but you guys should be selling the match as well, not the PPV that we've already seen. There was also a point in the match where, Excalibur I think, just went "Guys, I really like this match". Christian & Omega were currently wrestling, there was stuff to talk about, not a just a blanket I'm enjoying this.
The crowd, I know nobody's going to agree on me here. Unlike the commentators, the crowd did have genuinely great moments throughout that helped enhance the experience. When Adam Cole said "Bay Bay" and they chanted full lungs with him, that was incredible and made Adam Cole's turn all the more sweeter. When I initially watched it, there were several moments where the crowd annoyed me but days removed there's only one instance that jumps to mind. Punk vs. Darby, Darby sitting in the corner so Punk takes his iconic cross-legged position and the two had a sit-down staredown. This moment was cool, it made great use out of established iconography of (I'm assuming with Darby) both wrestlers. The crowd chanted "Holy Shit" at this. Omega & Christian have to kill themselves to illicit Holy Shit chants, Punk just needs to sit down. Sure, hometown hero, first match back in seven years, I get the love, but when something so mundane generates such a massive reaction, it just devalues the worth of the chant. It was such an overblown silly reaction, that it took me out of the moment.
And chocolate, cut it out of my life over a decade ago and haven't missed it once. Eating it only ever made me depressed. And chocolate is the boring flavour, not vanilla. Chocolate's way more liked, people think you're weird for not liking chocolate, and this is evidence by just how prevalent it is in the candy industry. Screw chocolate.
Colour me surprised, I thought she was going to be a toaster strudel flavour. I have to wonder if I'm experiencing Britt Baker wrong for the first time, I'm pretty sure it's the character of Britt Baker that got her over right, because based off this one match, I don't really get the appeal. Don't get me wrong, I don't think she's a bad wrestler or that this was a bad match, but it seemed pretty standard to me? My expectations might've been too high, but this was just fine. Totally acceptable, but completely unremarkable, I think the biggest spot in this match was Orange Cassidy showing emotion to hype Statlander back into the ring. Pretty sure it got the biggest crowd reaction anyway. It was a cool moment, but I didn't expect the highlight of the first Britt Baker match I saw to be Orange Cassidy. I also feel compelled to note that the biggest spot between the two actually wrestling was probably the Canadian Destroyer, a move I kinda hate. I'm one of those grumpy pants.
But What About the Rest of the Women's Roster?
Next I watched the ending of the Women's Battle Royal. Basically starting from the point the fans were chanting Ruby Soho because AEW doesn't like keeping secrets. What I saw of this match, was also fine. Glad Ruby won but it was more the other woman that caught my attention, Thunder Rosa specifically I really liked what little I say. Tay Conti seemed much improved from what I saw in the Mae Young Classic, that's always nice to see.
However there was one major problem I had with what little I saw, they did back-to-back the same elimination. Jade Cargill eliminates someone, gets cocky and poses, and gets eliminated because of it. The next elimination is from Tay Conti, who gets cocky and poses, and gets eliminated because of it. Conti's was extra stupid because she was posing on the apron, at least Cargill was in the ring. Those should not have been so close together with no other eliminations in-between them, it was too repetitive.
Time for a Match I Actually Cared About Going in
I wanted to watch this match for two main reasons. For starters, it might've been Jericho's last match. Considering Jericho has stated in numerous interviews there'll never be a Jericho retirement match, or official last match, I was pretty confident that Jericho was going to walk away the victor, but I did have my doubts, maybe he was just working us all that time? The other reason is similar to Britt Baker, I wanted to see MJF wrestle. Unlike Baker, I've seen several promos from MJF, and the only thing better than his mic work, is his singing voice. I really wanted to see how MJF was in the ring.
And the answer is, MJF is a true heel. I love how much personality was infused within this match, from MJF wiping his ass with Jericho's coat, to the constant thrusting, this is a guy who embodies his character, whether he's cutting a promo or wrestling a match, and I love that. If you remove that aspect from his wrestling, he's still good, one match isn't really enough to judge, but it doesn't matter when the character work elevates everything he's doing. The match itself was really entertaining, and I actually loved the finish. I did admittedly groan when the match cut to Wardlow & Hager but that actually paid off really well, giving a logical explanation for another referee to be out there and correct the BS Heel victory. And Jericho doesn't just get the roll-up victory off of that like I sort of expected, that continued to have an actual match and more decisive conclusion, while still giving MJF plenty of positive talking points afterward. Just great stuff, an excellent match.
However, it wasn't without it's flaws. Jericho just outright throws like a metal stand thing onto MJF, right outside the ring with the referee watching, and it wasn't a disqualification. That really bugged me, especially since it's actually important to the story of the match that disqualifications are on because MJF needs to hid the fact that he hit Jericho with a bat. That's the only complaint I have but I do think it's a big one. Not enough to ruin the match, but it definitely dampens the experience. If I was rating out of 10 like the rate threads, I would've knocked off a full point at least.
The Only Thing More Surreal Than CM Punk Returning to Wrestle, is CM Punk Wrestling in Full Tights
Finally, after seven years, CM Punk has finally returned to wrestling in a match against Darby Allin that I can only describe as boring. Well, considering like five spots were directly lifted from Bret vs. 1-2-3 Kid, I guess I could also describe it as stolen. Strangely, I recall really loving Bret vs. 1-2-3 Kid, yet I was mostly bored throughout this encounter with Punk & Darby. I'm not willing to re-watch Bret vs. Kid, but I suspect that's because it felt more like an actual build and less like, it's been ten minutes we can start wrestling for real now. It was odd, it almost felt to me like Punk was wrestling like a heel. All his offense in the beginning was just rest holds, keeping the match at incredibly slow pace, and then he was just outright willing to take a count-out victory? I don't really get it. And I don't inherently mind a slow pace if it builds up, but like I said, I didn't really feel like this match really escalated properly. Maybe the slow parts were too slow and long and the faster paced content was over too quickly. Or maybe I just expected too much. Honestly for the first ten or whatever minutes, the only thing keeping me awake was Darby's insane bumping. Like dear god, when Punk whipped him into the corner and Darby torpedoed out of the ring, I was dialing an ambulance myself.
But that aside, when things got going they were great and I don't it's was noticeable that Punk hadn't wrestled for seven years. Every move he hit felt and looked crisp, that calf kick in particular. I don't think this was a bust in terms of showcasing that Punk's "still got it", which is arguably the only thing that matters, even if I didn't really like the match itself. Of the four full matches I saw, this was easily the least enjoyable.
That DQ Problem from MJF/Jericho Sure was Unfortunate, Hope That Doesn't Cameo in the Main Event
This was an excellent main event, with only one problem, they invited the DQ Problem from earlier. This one isn't as egregious as the earlier one since it's not all that integral to later moments in the match that disqualification is very much a thing, but it was still annoying. So early on, Kenny Omega has Don Callis distract the referee so he can stomp a table into Christian, in a really cool spot. Despite going through all that effort to make that spot hidden from the referee, Omega & Callis then basically immediately set-up a table right in front of the referee's eyes. And that table is of course, later broken right in front of the referee's eyes, with both man constantly trying to put the other through it without any regard for the referee watching the whole thing. I wouldn't even mind this if it wasn't for the fact that they went through the effort to sneakily do the first table spot, what the hell is the point when tables clearly aren't grounds for disqualification. Is it because Kenny attacked the table in the first spot, because that would be a really stupid distinction to me. It's just dumb, at least keep it consistent.
But otherwise this was a fantastic main event. Things immediately were happening, the action was so quickly engaging and it built up it well. I actually loved the apron table fake-out spots. I loved how it basically started off with the most devastating option, being the tiger suplex, and progressively got more and more tame with each counter attempt. Not being sarcastic, it still felt like escalation since it was switching over to finishers, but because the moves were becoming less dangerous, that it made it all the more plausible that they'd do it. I actually though we might get the One Winged Angel through the table there for example, and it's because they started with the least believable option, the Tiger Suplex, thereby making each subsequent suggestion more and more plausible, increasing the drama and excitement. The finish was absolutely brilliant too, the top rope One Winged Angel was the climax of the match, it felt like the biggest move and it was. Sometimes the biggest spot isn't the finish, here it was, and it worked well.
And of course, Adam Cole and Bryan Danielson (that's going to take some getting use to ngl), showing up afterwards was great too. Once Adam Cole came out, I kinda knew Bryan was soon to follow, definitely by the time he revealed he was siding with the Elite, still though, Cole was an actual surprise. I mean, it was obvious he'd wind up in AEW but I definitely didn't expect it to be this soon, I was just expecting Bryan.
I Hate the Three C's: Commentary, Crowd, & Chocolate
Let's start with the least controversial, commentary. There were fine moments of commentary were it didn't actively detract from the experience, but I miss two man commentary teams, and some of JR's lines felt like they were lifted directly from Smackdown vs. Raw 2007. There were at least two lines that felt more like audio clips pulled from the video games inserted into the match rather than genuine commentary. I don't know if anyone else felt that but my other major problem with commentary was how much they were praising the show. Like, I'm pretty sure it was during the lull after the table spot in the main event, but rather than talking about the main event itself, the commentators were instead recapping the show and saying how awesome it was. I'm sorry, this is the AEW World Championship on the line, these two guys are killing each-other, why are you talking about Ruby Soho's debut during it? I know they're selling so not much is going on to comment on but you guys should be selling the match as well, not the PPV that we've already seen. There was also a point in the match where, Excalibur I think, just went "Guys, I really like this match". Christian & Omega were currently wrestling, there was stuff to talk about, not a just a blanket I'm enjoying this.
The crowd, I know nobody's going to agree on me here. Unlike the commentators, the crowd did have genuinely great moments throughout that helped enhance the experience. When Adam Cole said "Bay Bay" and they chanted full lungs with him, that was incredible and made Adam Cole's turn all the more sweeter. When I initially watched it, there were several moments where the crowd annoyed me but days removed there's only one instance that jumps to mind. Punk vs. Darby, Darby sitting in the corner so Punk takes his iconic cross-legged position and the two had a sit-down staredown. This moment was cool, it made great use out of established iconography of (I'm assuming with Darby) both wrestlers. The crowd chanted "Holy Shit" at this. Omega & Christian have to kill themselves to illicit Holy Shit chants, Punk just needs to sit down. Sure, hometown hero, first match back in seven years, I get the love, but when something so mundane generates such a massive reaction, it just devalues the worth of the chant. It was such an overblown silly reaction, that it took me out of the moment.
And chocolate, cut it out of my life over a decade ago and haven't missed it once. Eating it only ever made me depressed. And chocolate is the boring flavour, not vanilla. Chocolate's way more liked, people think you're weird for not liking chocolate, and this is evidence by just how prevalent it is in the candy industry. Screw chocolate.
