Your thoughts on homosexual rights and gay marriages

[Justem]

Jasmine

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[The Wrestling Addict]

In this thread you can express your thoughts on gay marriages and homosexual rights. I think that whatever is said in this thread should stay in this thread so nobody gets angry. I know this is a touchy subject but I figured it would spark some discussion. I got the idea after what happened with CM Punk over the weekend. I don't want anyone to feel offended, just don't go overboard by calling someone a "smurf" or a "Queer" or even call someone "Homophobic."

I'll start and express how I feel about homosexual relations. First off, I'll come out and say it, I am a christian. I have mixed feelings about homsexual relations. Since I am Christian and I believe in the Bible, the Bible states that homsexuality is wrong. Now with that being said, the Bible also states that everyone sins. So everyone makes mistakes, it's just something you do in life.

I don't think it's true that you are born homosexual. I think that people just use as an excuse. I think homosexuality is all about what you experiment with. I think that people feel they were born gay, but in reality how can you be born gay? It's hard for me to explain and it's even hard for me to understand. I just don't get that and I don't guess I ever will since I am not homosexual.

With that being said, I feel that homosexuality is wrong but I will not hate on someone because they are gay.

So hopefully that will spark some discussion. Please don't hate on each other for your comments as long as they don't go overboard.

 

[SAL]

I was raised Catholic but don't follow any religion. It's simple to me: I don't feel comfortable telling two consenting adults what they can and cannot do together in privacy. I don't think it's my place, or for that matter, the place of lawmakers. I'm happy the Supreme Court agreed with that position and struck down a Texas law banning homosexual sodomy in 2003. Personally, I have a lot of friends who are gay or bisexual. Even if I'd otherwise be inclined to find something wrong with homosexuality, I couldn't possibly justify judging their lifestyle, their predispositions, their choices, whatever we want to call it. It's a privacy issue above all else.

To talk about homosexuality and then talk about gay marriage, we have to have two different discussions. Because there's a difference between the private behavior and entering into a public institution such as marriage. As I said, I don't have a religion, and I honestly don't care much for any religion that forces strict limitations on its parishioners. That said, I understand the place of religion in society. It's an essential structure, I won't deny that. Each religion is free to make whatever rules they want. Really, it's unfortunate that legal marriage and religious marriage use the same word. With a legal marriage, one recognized by the state, a couple receives rights and benefits single people don't have. We have to ask: what is the purpose of recognizing legal marriages? Certainly, there is a moral element. It helps the government encourage its notion of family. But also, marriage serves to formally recognize the bond between two people who love each other. I just can't see how permitting same-sex marriage gets in the way of these goals. I haven't heard any argument against same-sex marriage that has even come close to convincing me.

Tradition? I, honestly, I don't care about tradition. This country's only been around for 235 years, and in that short time we've done a 180 on rights for blacks and rights for women. This strikes me as the issue our grandkids will ask us about: "Why didn't you let gay people have equal rights?" And I don't have an answer for it now, nevermind in the future! "Because it's....icky?" A tradition of bigotry doesn't do much to convince me it should be that way forever. The other argument I've heard is that gay people aren't being prevented from getting married. Every guy can marry a woman and vice-versa. Look up a Supreme Court case, "Loving v. Virginia." A 1960s case. The Court swatted away a ban on interracial marriage, even though its supporters said everyone had the equal right to marry within their race. That's not equality. Giving a gay man or woman a choice between an ill-fitting marriage or no marriage, that's not a choice at all.

Longer response than I planned to give!

 

[No More Sorrow]

I don't think there's anything wrong with being gay, my neighbors are gay and they do there own thing, it doesn't effect my life at all. When i was in high school, there was a lot of hate crimes against gays/lesbians, and it got to the point were kids were getting arrested almost everyday for shit they did/said to homosexuals. Some of the stuff was really messed up too, if you don't agree with gay marriage that's perfectly fine, but i don't care either way.

 

[gertrudeB]

I understand the situation of gays and lesbains but I'm not in favor of same sex marriage. It was in the bible that god made woman (Eve) for Adam to marry and not another man.

 

[The Boondocks]

In this thread you can express your thoughts on gay marriages and homosexual rights. I think that whatever is said in this thread should stay in this thread so nobody gets angry. I know this is a touchy subject but I figured it would spark some discussion. I got the idea after what happened with CM Punk over the weekend. I don't want anyone to feel offended, just don't go overboard by calling someone a "smurf" or a "Queer" or even call someone "Homophobic."

I'll start and express how I feel about homosexual relations. First off, I'll come out and say it, I am a christian. I have mixed feelings about homsexual relations. Since I am Christian and I believe in the Bible, the Bible states that homsexuality is wrong. Now with that being said, the Bible also states that everyone sins. So everyone makes mistakes, it's just something you do in life.

As you know, D, I've recently stepped back into the religious world, as a Christian. So what I see here is pretty solid. I agree with the Bible in saying that homosexuality is wrong. I feel like men were made for women, and vice versa. With that being said, your mentioning that everyone sins is something I didn't think of. I know I sin. I do drugs, I drink. I take part in some criminal actions as well. So to think of homosexuality is a mistake, such as what I've done, makes sence to me. It was said in the bible that one shouldn't do wrongs and such, but we're all human. We all do it. Some people do crimes. Some people lie. Some people cheat life. And some people are gay/lesbian.

I don't think it's true that you are born homosexual. I think that people just use as an excuse. I think homosexuality is all about what you experiment with. I think that people feel they were born gay, but in reality how can you be born gay? It's hard for me to explain and it's even hard for me to understand. I just don't get that and I don't guess I ever will since I am not homosexual.

Again, I agree with you. I don't think people are born gay. I believe people are born heterosexual, but what they do in their life leading up to when they "come out of the closet," per say, such as their childhood can influence what they are attracted to. For example, a child could be raised in a family where their parents relationship isn't good. The parents could fight, and lead a young boy to believe that he shouldn't like women. I may not understand, because I'm straight, but it gets me thinking about what really happened in some peoples' lives.

With that being said, I feel that homosexuality is wrong but I will not hate on someone because they are gay.

So hopefully that will spark some discussion. Please don't hate on each other for your comments as long as they don't go overboard.

Agree. I believe it's wrong, but even if some people aren't born like that, they can't help it. Good topic.

I was raised Catholic but don't follow any religion. It's simple to me: I don't feel comfortable telling two consenting adults what they can and cannot do together in privacy. I don't think it's my place, or for that matter, the place of lawmakers. I'm happy the Supreme Court agreed with that position and struck down a Texas law banning homosexual sodomy in 2003. Personally, I have a lot of friends who are gay or bisexual. Even if I'd otherwise be inclined to find something wrong with homosexuality, I couldn't possibly justify judging their lifestyle, their predispositions, their choices, whatever we want to call it. It's a privacy issue above all else.

To talk about homosexuality and then talk about gay marriage, we have to have two different discussions. Because there's a difference between the private behavior and entering into a public institution such as marriage. As I said, I don't have a religion, and I honestly don't care much for any religion that forces strict limitations on its parishioners. That said, I understand the place of religion in society. It's an essential structure, I won't deny that. Each religion is free to make whatever rules they want. Really, it's unfortunate that legal marriage and religious marriage use the same word. With a legal marriage, one recognized by the state, a couple receives rights and benefits single people don't have. We have to ask: what is the purpose of recognizing legal marriages? Certainly, there is a moral element. It helps the government encourage its notion of family. But also, marriage serves to formally recognize the bond between two people who love each other. I just can't see how permitting same-sex marriage gets in the way of these goals. I haven't heard any argument against same-sex marriage that has even come close to convincing me.

Tradition? I, honestly, I don't care about tradition. This country's only been around for 235 years, and in that short time we've done a 180 on rights for blacks and rights for women. This strikes me as the issue our grandkids will ask us about: "Why didn't you let gay people have equal rights?" And I don't have an answer for it now, nevermind in the future! "Because it's....icky?" A tradition of bigotry doesn't do much to convince me it should be that way forever. The other argument I've heard is that gay people aren't being prevented from getting married. Every guy can marry a woman and vice-versa. Look up a Supreme Court case, "Loving v. Virginia." A 1960s case. The Court swatted away a ban on interracial marriage, even though its supporters said everyone had the equal right to marry within their race. That's not equality. Giving a gay man or woman a choice between an ill-fitting marriage or no marriage, that's not a choice at all.

Longer response than I planned to give!

You bring up some good points that I also want to touch on. I agree that the idea of homosexuality and it's position in society as marriage are different. I have many good friends who are gay, both men and women. I have no problems with it, and I support them. But when they talk about moving away to get married, I get uncomfortable. I mentioned earlier that I believe men were made for women and vice versa. If a religion supports gay marriage, then I will not disagree with them. But if they bring the legal side of things into the picture, that's where I limit the thought. This country was built on religions that practice heterosexual marriage. At that point, I believe we should "stay true to our roots" and ban same sex marriage in the United States. If they want to become citizens in another nation and get married, more power to them.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being gay, my neighbors are gay and they do there own thing, it doesn't effect my life at all. When i was in high school, there was a lot of hate crimes against gays/lesbians, and it got to the point were kids were getting arrested almost everyday for shit they did/said to homosexuals. Some of the stuff was really messed up too, if you don't agree with gay marriage that's perfectly fine, but i don't care either way.

Lastly, I wanted to mention, I still notice many, many hate crimes against homosexual relations, and in no way condone it. But I feel the need to point out that it does still happen.

 

[liamjr24]

Beyond the religious aspect of the debate, what I think this boils down to is denying people certain rights based solely on something that is a natural part of who they are and how they are born. To say that it's an "excuse" is a covert insult whether it's meant or not. You may as well say blonde people can't get married, or don't deserve the same rights as dark haired people.

Going into the religious aspect of the debate, as an Atheist I don't think religious teachings should have any say in the making of laws in any country. Religion is a faith and to base laws on simple faith is illogical. If you want to base your own principles on faith, good for you, but a book which, until it can fully be proven that everything in it is a factual event, is simply a story book should not affect the rights of every single person in a country.

Going back to the "being gay is a choice" fallacy, and sticking on the theme of religion, do you think your religion is a choice? If so, would you deny people equal rights to you based on their choice of religion? Should I, as an Atheist, be entitled to fewer rights than you, simply for my lack of faith? If not, then why should homosexuals (if their sexuality is a choice, which I don't believe it is) be entitled to fewer rights than heterosexuals?
If you think your faith is NOT a choice, and you were born a Christian or a Muslim or whichever religion you are a member of, why is it so hard to believe that homosexuals were born that way too?

 

[The Wrestling Addict]

Beyond the religious aspect of the debate, what I think this boils down to is denying people certain rights based solely on something that is a natural part of who they are and how they are born. To say that it's an "excuse" is a covert insult whether it's meant or not. You may as well say blonde people can't get married, or don't deserve the same rights as dark haired people.

The thing is, man was made to marry woman. A woman was made to marry a man. That's just how people were made. Blonde people were born blonde. Gay people were not born gay. I'll finish that with the next thing you said.

Going back to the "being gay is a choice" fallacy, and sticking on the theme of religion, do you think your religion is a choice? If so, would you deny people equal rights to you based on their choice of religion? Should I, as an Atheist, be entitled to fewer rights than you, simply for my lack of faith? If not, then why should homosexuals (if their sexuality is a choice, which I don't believe it is) be entitled to fewer rights than heterosexuals?
If you think your faith is NOT a choice, and you were born a Christian or a Muslim or whichever religion you are a member of, why is it so hard to believe that homosexuals were born that way too?

I was not born a christian or a muslim and nobody is born a Christian, just like nobody is born gay. I chose my faith and I became saved as a Christian. Homosexuals choose to be Homosexual. I know it's how they feel but come on, nobody can be born gay, just like nobody can be born a Christian.

 

[liamjr24]

The thing is, man was made to marry woman. A woman was made to marry a man. That's just how people were made. Blonde people were born blonde. Gay people were not born gay.

Nobody is made to marry anyone. Men and women were made to reproduce with one another, but marriage is not all about reproduction. People can have children outside of marriage, people can be married and not have children. There is no reason to say that a man cannot marry another man or woman can marry another woman, other than because a story book says that same sex relations are wrong. Again, to say that people are not born homosexual is a fallacy. The American Psychological Association stated that - "Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth."

I was not born a christian or a muslim and nobody is born a Christian, just like nobody is born gay. I chose my faith and I became saved as a Christian. Homosexuals choose to be Homosexual. I know it's how they feel but come on, nobody can be born gay, just like nobody can be born a Christian.

You've ignored my point here as to whether homosexuals deserve fewer rights than heterosexuals, or Atheists deserve less rights than Theists, simply because of (in your opinion) a choice they've made. You chose to be a Christian. Should your rights be affected by this? If not, then why should a homosexual's?

 

[The Wrestling Addict]

You make a valid point but listen, I did chose to be a Christian and some of my rights have been affected. For example, you aren't allowed to pray out loud in public schools anymore. Men were made to marry Women. It states that in the Bible which the Bible is true because of all the prophecies. That's a different topic for a different place but I have seen proof that the Bible is fact and not fiction. I also think if a preacher is willing to marry a homosexual couple, then they shouldn't be certified to preach whenever it states in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong.


Let me also tie this into the subject. People think it's disgusting and wrong to marry insest. What's the different between marrying your child and marrying someone of your same sex? Insests don't get certain rights, so why should gays? It's just as sick to be gay, then it is to be insest.

 

[liamjr24]

You make a valid point but listen, I did chose to be a Christian and some of my rights have been affected. For example, you aren't allowed to pray out loud in public schools anymore. Men were made to marry Women. It states that in the Bible which the Bible is true because of all the prophecies. That's a different topic for a different place but I have seen proof that the Bible is fact and not fiction. I also think if a preacher is willing to marry a homosexual couple, then they shouldn't be certified to preach whenever it states in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong.

We will agree to disagree on the validity of the Bible as a source. As for your rights being affected as a Christian, I oppose that. You should have equal rights to everyone else, so long as by exercising said right you don't impinge on anyone else's rights. The same goes for homosexuals. Homosexual rights and gay marriages do not contravene any personal rights that I can think of and so I don't see the problem. However, using religion as a basis for law is unconstitutional by many interpretations of the Establishment Clause. Therefore to use the Bible as a basis to oppose gay marriage can only be a personal objection, not one in law. Denying people legal rights based on a religious text which has little, if any, basis in fact is unconstitutional.

With regards to men being made to marry women because it says so in the Bible, that is due to the fact that in the bible extra-marital sex is a sin and so men were supposed to marry women in order to have marital sex with them in order to reproduce. But, like I said, there are children born out of wedlock and childless marriages these days, making that requirement for men to marry women obsolete.

Let me also tie this into the subject. People think it's disgusting and wrong to marry insest. What's the different between marrying your child and marrying someone of your same sex? Insests don't get certain rights, so why should gays? It's just as sick to be gay, then it is to be insest.

The incest thing is borne mostly because of the problem that arises from genetics, i.e. gene mutation caused by incestuous sex, leading to disfigured or deformed offspring. As a result, a certain stigma has been attached to the practice of incest. From a personal stand point, it's none of my concern if people have incestuous relationships. If both parties are at the age of consent, and provide that consent, then it's none of my business. If it's a natural occurance in someone's psyche to have such attractions, and their partners give informed consent, then I support their rights, even if I don't agree with the act itself (I don't oppose homosexuality, but I have problems with incest on the grounds of questionable informed consent and genetic problems that can come from it).

 

[PHX]

I say in this day and age where marriage is being used for reality shows, and coupes getting divorced after a few months, some women using it as a way to get a pay day from a celeb by taking half they money the fact that people say marriage is still special or whatever is a joke. So I see no reason to be up in arms if people of the same sex want to get married. Got to be able to live your life however you want to live it. People can have their opinion on if its right or wrong but at the end of the day it's those people's lives.