Undertaker?

[The Rated R CMStar]

Taker has proved that he can delivered in a match. He sells great for a big guy, and has a good offense, but, if you watch closely to his character, you will notice two things that have been bothering me.

1. His gimmick: The famous deadman gimmick that has made him famous. Seeing him as a casual fan, or hell, a smart fan, he just captures you. But, one could say it is just a way of hiding his flaws. I mean, one of the characteristics of his character is to rise up from pain, sitting up, perhaps a way of letting him no sell? Or how about the fact that his only lines on a promo is Rest in Peace, and once in a while Dead awaits for no one? A way to cover his lack of mic skills?

2. His offense: As great as it is, does it really fit his persona? I mean, sure, out of the ring is one thing, and inside he is just fighting, but how does a Deadman applying Old School makes any sense? Sure, by that logic a Deadman would apply no move, but I don't know, I find more comfortable watching him apply the Tombstone, the Chokeslam. And the mis-match between his persona and offense has gotten now worse that he has adapt a more MMA style of fighting.


So, what do you think?

(BTW, this is no bashing or nothing to Taker, as he is hands down one if not the best wrestler in history)

 

[HHHforever]

Your points are well taken. The no-selling point is very true, I'm not sure that Taker can't sell, but that would be a way to cover it up. Also something that I don't think you pointed out and that has always bothered me, just because HHH gets murdered for it, is the fact that Taker never, ever jobs or puts anyone over. It doesn't make me that mad, I just don't like how he gets a free pass for it and HHH get's bitched about for the same thing.

As far as a lack of mic skills goes I don't really agree with that statement. Taker's promo's are great because they're short and to the point. He cut a promo before NWO where he said something other than Rest in Peace and it was pretty solid. He can cut promo's, but his character doesn't really make sense that he would come out and cut these huge, amazing promos.

Your points are very good, I disagree with a couple of them, but on the whole you make some interesting observations. I too would like to point out that I love Taker too.

 

[Nancy Di Loreto]

'Taker vs. Angle from NWO '06. 'Taker sold like crackwhore in that match...

 

[HHHforever]

^Well I think his point is that it doesn't happen that often. I still think that Taker can sell perfectly fine, he's absolutely fantastic in the ring, but he doesn't do it that much because his character doesn't really have him selling because it doesn't make sense.

 

[Evil Austin]

I think the only flaw and bad thing in the undertaker is his gimmick doesn't give him to talk on promo's so beside from that everything else and all his matches are the most memorable ones in history.

 

[THE Brian Kendrick's Biceps]

I don't think Taker can cut a promo, and that is a smart cover up. And moves like old school do not fit him. I mean, I think a Chokeslam is a perfect move. And his punches are fine. But old school? It definately doesn't suit him

 

[4RealVivaLaRaza]

'Taker vs. Angle from NWO '06. 'Taker sold like crackwhore in that match...

Agreed. And not exactly a match but the Smackdown before Mania 21, after Orton gave Undertaker an RKO. :good:

 

[HHHforever]

^Yea I mean old school might not really fit him, but it's kind of become one of trade mark moves. I still think that Taker can cut a promo, he just doesn't have to because of his gimmick. He's cut some decent ones in the past, he just doesn't have too.

 

[Evil Austin]

Undertaker - how do you like him ?

OK we all know that the undertaker has had a long and storied carrier but I was wondering on your thoughts what was the best type of Undertaker. I will add a poll to it soon And in the mean time just post your one and why.

Different types are -

this was the very first undertaker that brought us to understanding on who or what this gimmick would be.

Ministry undertaker would be the Undertaker that run wild during the attitude era with wars with Vince, Foley, Austin, Kane and a few others He would have his ministry stable and in my eyes would be his best gimmick.

American Bad ass Undertaker would be from 2001 - 2003 and he would ride to the ring in a bike and he would demand respect and receive it. In my eyes it was a nice change to the undertaker we were used to but you can't change what we are used to and we all knew and loved the normal dead man undertaker.

- present type Undertaker - the undertaker that is around from 2004 - now.


There would also be a few other undertaker types like with pink gloves and tie slight diff to first one and than the ones with spikes as shoulder padds in 1995-1996 i just can't find any picks of em



So what undertaker is your favorite. (i will add a poll late but just post your fav and why.)

 

[Airfixx]

Someone please tell me, why all of a sudden DOESN'T old school suit him? He's been doing it when playing The Deadman since day one... (When he first arrived, pretty much his entire move set was unique to him and IMO he made it his own, so yes, it does damn well suit him!)

I miss the very old taker conduct where he'd barely move (apart from to climb the ropes) and just fling his opponent all around the ring and off the ropes, occasionally just maulling peeps with like a one-handed face-vice (or whatever it's called if it has a proper name) in the corner whilst looking off, all evil-like, into the distance....


The submissions is a funny one though... Not sure that really sits well with his character even if it has breathed a a bit of freshness into his matches. I'm tiring of Taker in general now tho', so will happily settle for a revitalised Taker in the short term until it's retirement time(*) for the sake of still being entertained by his matches (*which I hope, for the sake of his legacy, is soon.).

As for his mic skills... May not be dynamite like Flair, Jericho or whoever, but his mic work as The American Badass should go a long way to prove that he is more than capable of delivering a decent promo..... I don't understand why everyone thinks that in order to be deemed good on the mic you need to be loud, say loads, be funny etc.

Less is more sometimes....

However, you only need to look as far as the Ministry of Darkness days to see just how well Taker has played his character over the years - Mark is the main reason why such a potentially wack gimmick has been over such much and for so long.

One thing I would have liked for WWE to play up a bit more is the idea that Taker is the Concience of the WWE... I just thought the concept resonated really well.

 

[the last gunslinger]

^^^Mostly agree....he's been at this for so long that people forget that a move like Old School is actually part of his original set, the settlement into a more MMA style that's new. as far as promos go he can cut great promos as shown when he was in his American baddass gimmick...and you can't really say that he doesn't put anyone over because he has put a lot of guys over....HHH being one of them....and more recently Kennedy...'Taker pretty much books himself we all know this....but at the same time he has no problem putting other guys over....u have to admit that his rivalry with Kennedy was pretty damn good and it put Kennedy on the map in a way that no other rivalry could have...and I'm pretty sure 'Taker had a lot to do on the outcome and pace of those matches

 

[Airfixx]

Similarly, I dissagree with claims that Taker never put's people over. What I take issue with however (as I know some other on IWF do) is the way that HHH get's all the bashing for abuse of power backstage and not putting people over when, if anything, Taker has been just as bad, (if not worse) over the years.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

Taker does ut people over, let people to know them, but in the end, he always wins the feud.

He had a gret feud that brought back Orton as a great heel, but who won the feud? Taker

Kennedy was put on the map by Taker indeed, but he never defeated him. He won by DQ, interference and then lost the last bout of the feud.

KHali, he dismantled Taker, was made a credible moster, Taker comes back, wins a Last Man Standing.


So, Taker does put people over, give them credibility, but in the end, he always is the one winning the feud.

HHH on the other hand, while he doesn't put people over a lot, he did with Batista and Cena, and he clearly lost those feuds

 

[Airfixx]

He's lost clean to Batista & Lesnar (just off the top of my head)... But whilst I do see your point, aside from the argument that you don't have to lose to someone in order to put them over, I think the difference is Taker's gimmick... The gimmick itself can't afford the loses and so to counter this Taker puts people over by means of making them look a viable threat to him (which, more often than not, proves to be enough when you consider the kayfaybe rammifications).... I guess what I'm saying is, from Taker, a rub is as good as a full-blown 'putting over'.

If the later part of the above were not the case, then I don't believe Kennedy would have even got that fued to start with as for a bonafide 1,2,3/submission threat to Taker, that's ME title fued material.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

I agree with that, but when you bash people about not putting someone over, you are not taking into account kayfabe, it's exclusevely acting like a smart fan, and Taker/HHH both are veterans and over, so I find it unfair, not speaking kayfabe or character like, that HHH is bashed from not putting over and Taker doesn't.