Thoughts on non-Mixed Martial Artists in MMA.

[Kaptain KnicKy]

With the Couture/Toney fight coming up soon, what's your thoughts on the fight and the idea of Boxers etc (non-MMA fighters) enterting MMA?

I mean, Toney doesn't look like he's going to be hard to get to the ground come the fight, despite his weight. The guy may have some serious knockout power - which I'm not entirely sure how it compares to a MMA guy like Couture - but if the fight goes to the ground etc, I can't seem him winning.

There's a reason it's called MMA - mixed martial arts - it's not just one aspect, like boxing, you need to be able to defend and attack in every aspect. Toney I think is going to get owned in this fight, however if he decides to stick with it I could see him being an interesting piece in the HW division. He's going to need to learn and fine tune his other skills if he ever wants to get somewhere. Otherwise, I see this being a sweet victory for MMA over boxing.

Thoughts?

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

All I can say is that there is no one in all of MMA who has the chin to stand up with James Toney. But of course anyone with half a brain wouldn't try that. Couture is somewhat of a trap for a first fight, while he is old, there might not be anyone who has gotten by on sheer technique and grit at such an age as Randy Couture in all of sports history except for Jamie Moyer, Brett Favre and George fuckin Blanda. Couture will probably win a really dull, quick contest. But maybe he will feel froggy and try and stand up with Toney and try and make it exciting. But I want James to succeed as he is the only good boxer to ever try MMA but he too is old and washed up. He's over 40, I dunno how much over, but that's really old to try MMA, but that's even older for a boxer.

 

[FabulousRougeauBrother]

When you break down MMA (as far as it stands right now with the UFC anyway) there's really three skills you need:

1. Standup (typically in the form of muay thai)
2. Wrestling to get your opponent to the ground
3. Ju-jitsu to defend/attack while on the ground

I just can't see a boxer like James Toney being able to survive only having one of the three skills. Unless Couture or any other person who fights a boxer wants to prove something and beat the boxer "at his own game" or something utterly ridiculous like that.

 

[pumpt73]

Well it's really not a big deal. Pure Boxers have not shown well in MMA in the past, but please don't think Im discrediting them. I always go back to Yosuke Nishijima who came into MMA as a pure Boxer. A pure Boxer with a pedigree. He had a 24-2 record and held the WBO, WBF, NABO, and OPFB Cruiserweight titles. When he went to MMA, 0-5 with all 5 fights getting finished. Nishijima had no clue what the hell to do when he was put on his back.

With Toney, you have a dangerous fighter. He's going from fighting with big bulky boxing gloves to fighting with 4 ounce hand protectors. Huge difference. The key is going to be for Randy to close the distance and stick to what he knows. Wrestling to his Ground N Pound, and if it presents itself, switch off to his BJJ. Im sorry, but Randy's chin is suspect over his last 4 or 5 bouts. Toney can KO him in a heartbeat and don't be a damn bit surprised if it happens. Here's another factor, what's Toney's gas tank like??? These are 5 minute rounds, something he's still getting used to. Plus the sport is a bit more physical than boxing. Randy has shown time and again that "Father Time" hasn't slowed him a bit.

Toney has worked out with some solid talent. He submitted Strikeforce 205lb champ and former Oklahoma State Wrestling star, Muhammad "King Mo" Lawal in a workout. Can he do it against an even more seasoned vet??? We'll find out. Overall, this is a must win for both. Couture has to win to save face for MMA, and Toney has to win to backup his mouth.

All in all, Toney better be on his A-Game because you can bet your bottom dollar that The Natural will be ready to roll once the cage door closes.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Pumpt, don't you think it's a little much to let a rookie like Toney's first fight be against a bonafide legend like Couture?

 

[pumpt73]

Oh absolutely Enzo. Toney has been running his mouth off to Dana White for a while now and said he wanted a top talent. He's trashed talked MMA quite a bit, so Dana obliged him. Kinda how Sonnen smack talked Silva, Toney smack talked MMA. Not to the extent in the public eye, but he still has.

Honestly, on paper, most would say that Couture dominates, but it's a really scary fight. If Toney catches Couture before he can get him to the ground, Toney has a legit shot at KOing Randy. Randy's chin isn't what it used to be, and he's going up against a guy who has KO power. Putting the knuckle protectors on is going to be a huge advantage for Toney instead of having to wear standard boxing gloves.

Can James Toney win??? Absoutely. Do I think he will win??? Absolutely not. Randy via Submission round 1.

 

[straight_edge76]

Like previously stated, nobody... I mean nobody in the MMA world (hell not too many boxers) have the chin that Toney has, even the strongest chin's in MMA couldn't stand up to one solid shot by Toney. If Randy has even half of a brain he will take it to the ground and try and end the fight fast with a submission or by opening up a cut on Toney. I feel this is in some ways a lose/lose for both men, either Toney gets rocked by one of the all time greats in his UFC debut, or he KO's Randy and in turn makes not only Randy, but in some ways MMA and the UFC inferior to boxing. Which in MMA's infancy (in terms of being a popular sport) could not afford to take.