THE AGE OF AWESOMENESS HAS STARTED!!!
- Thread starter He who knows more than Nation
- Start date
-
Welcome to "The New" Wrestling Smarks Forum!
I see that you are not currently registered on our forum. It only takes a second, and you can even login with your Facebook! If you would like to register now, pease click here: Register
Once registered please introduce yourself in our introduction thread which can be found here: Introduction Board
Who better to take the title off Miz than a man who is the best in the world at what he does?
To those saying Miz is all talk and no substance so he shouldn't have gotten the belt, let's take a little stroll down memory lane. One of the two hottest names to come from the Attitude Era was The Rock and when he started, let's face it, he couldn't wrestle his way out of a paper bag. He was a fantastic promo though and look at the doors those skills opened up for him - it allowed him to maintain at the main event level long enough for his in-ring skills to improve.
Rocky Miavia was in the WWF for all of 3 months (and the business less than a year) when he won his first Intercontinental Championship. Almost exactly 2 years into his WWF career he was the youngest World Champion in company history. In that 24 month time span this is a man who went from being universally hated by the audience and having "go-away" heat to a man who was possibly the best crowd starter and most interesting character in all of wrestling. The fans loved to hate him.
Any of this sound familiar?
Miz is arguably the top mic man in the sport today (certainly Top 5) and his ring skills, while not great by any means, are certainly more than passable. He has vastly improved his standing since the Miz & Morrison days. I personally never saw more than midcarder for either guy, each had his faults. Miz has, to an acceptable degree, covered his with his in-ring improvement. And like someone else said, he's still young and has alot of learning to do. With the nature of the business being the way it is these days, Miz is going to be able to improve and progress faster in the main event scene because they're the guys who really get the most attention, the most match time and the most TV exposure.
With wrestling, you're not really selling the matches themselves. Or even the stupid stories that people get so caught up in and disgruntled about (myself included). What really sells and draws people in is personalities. You're selling characters. WWE needs to get some new characters over now and they've got to be big. And Miz is a fucking awesome character.
WWE moves at the speed of a passenger train compared to how it was "in the good old days when guys went through the midcard and busted their asses for years to get to the top." Nowadays they're producing a minimum of first run television 5 hours a week, 23 hours a month, 276 hours a year. And that's not including the 2 extra PPVs, the sporadic 3-hour RAWs, or the now internet exclusive NXT. Guys don't have 10 years to toil away and connect with fans, they need to do it quicker and Miz has done just that.
Sheamus has been forced down peoples throats (I personally enjoyed his quick shove to the top) but has been able to step up to the plate and deliver. Because of that, I feel people are truly starting to see Sheamus as a top star - because they've been told to. Miz is different. We haven't seen him winning and losing for 10-years but we've seen him grow from the undercard to the tag team scene to the midcard to the main event scene in 4 years (2x what it took The Rock BTW). We've watched the evolution of his character and, because of that, fans are more willing to accept Miz and react to his razzing. Vince & Co made Sheamus. Miz and the fans made The Miz IMO.
Ultimately I think this is a postive. The WWE needs a new direction, a fresh face. Miz has the qualifications and talent to run with the big dogs for a long time to come. His run last Summer with Cena truly was a test to see if Miz was ready for a promotion. They gave him a (losing) program with a legit megastar, gave him the US Championship, gave him the MiTB, made him put Daniel Bryan over on his way out of the midcard division, gave him prominent roles in main event programs with the multiman matches on PPVs, and then FINALLY pulled the trigger after hesitating on so many others for so long. Perfect storytelling at it's finest - something that is extremely rare these days.
I don't think Miz's first run will go down as historic in the long run, though. I picture him dropping it back to Orton at the Rumble, Elimination Chamber at the latest. I agree with many that Miz isn't going to be in the Mania main event, at least not this year.
I used to hate the guy but his output and personality have won me over. Congrats ya friggin' douchebag.
AWESOME!!
Rocky Miavia was in the WWF for all of 3 months (and the business less than a year) when he won his first Intercontinental Championship. Almost exactly 2 years into his WWF career he was the youngest World Champion in company history. In that 24 month time span this is a man who went from being universally hated by the audience and having "go-away" heat to a man who was possibly the best crowd starter and most interesting character in all of wrestling. The fans loved to hate him.
Any of this sound familiar?
Miz is arguably the top mic man in the sport today (certainly Top 5) and his ring skills, while not great by any means, are certainly more than passable. He has vastly improved his standing since the Miz & Morrison days. I personally never saw more than midcarder for either guy, each had his faults. Miz has, to an acceptable degree, covered his with his in-ring improvement. And like someone else said, he's still young and has alot of learning to do. With the nature of the business being the way it is these days, Miz is going to be able to improve and progress faster in the main event scene because they're the guys who really get the most attention, the most match time and the most TV exposure.
With wrestling, you're not really selling the matches themselves. Or even the stupid stories that people get so caught up in and disgruntled about (myself included). What really sells and draws people in is personalities. You're selling characters. WWE needs to get some new characters over now and they've got to be big. And Miz is a fucking awesome character.
WWE moves at the speed of a passenger train compared to how it was "in the good old days when guys went through the midcard and busted their asses for years to get to the top." Nowadays they're producing a minimum of first run television 5 hours a week, 23 hours a month, 276 hours a year. And that's not including the 2 extra PPVs, the sporadic 3-hour RAWs, or the now internet exclusive NXT. Guys don't have 10 years to toil away and connect with fans, they need to do it quicker and Miz has done just that.
Sheamus has been forced down peoples throats (I personally enjoyed his quick shove to the top) but has been able to step up to the plate and deliver. Because of that, I feel people are truly starting to see Sheamus as a top star - because they've been told to. Miz is different. We haven't seen him winning and losing for 10-years but we've seen him grow from the undercard to the tag team scene to the midcard to the main event scene in 4 years (2x what it took The Rock BTW). We've watched the evolution of his character and, because of that, fans are more willing to accept Miz and react to his razzing. Vince & Co made Sheamus. Miz and the fans made The Miz IMO.
Ultimately I think this is a postive. The WWE needs a new direction, a fresh face. Miz has the qualifications and talent to run with the big dogs for a long time to come. His run last Summer with Cena truly was a test to see if Miz was ready for a promotion. They gave him a (losing) program with a legit megastar, gave him the US Championship, gave him the MiTB, made him put Daniel Bryan over on his way out of the midcard division, gave him prominent roles in main event programs with the multiman matches on PPVs, and then FINALLY pulled the trigger after hesitating on so many others for so long. Perfect storytelling at it's finest - something that is extremely rare these days.
I don't think Miz's first run will go down as historic in the long run, though. I picture him dropping it back to Orton at the Rumble, Elimination Chamber at the latest. I agree with many that Miz isn't going to be in the Mania main event, at least not this year.
I used to hate the guy but his output and personality have won me over. Congrats ya friggin' douchebag.
AWESOME!!
Maybe I am wrong, but I think this title reign will last. First off, don't get your hopes up for Miz holding the title 6 months or something like that. In this current time, that just doesnt happen. By long, I mean surviving as long as let's say Kane has. If Miz holds the belt until Elimination Chamber, that's a long run with the belt already.
Yeah, maybe WWE screws him and has him drop the belt at TLC. But you know why I think it won't happen. Miz is the new John Cena. Not in how much merch he sells (altough if you look around the arena, you will see many of his T-shirts, very good for him being an upper midcard heel) but in how he can be the face of the company. John Cena is the guy who does every interview, does every show, goes to every country, does everything for the company...and likes it. Miz does it as well. Plus, he already has the mainstream covering him. Just look around the net, The Miz becomes champion and TMZ, MTV.com, ESPN and others are talking about it.
WWE knows Miz will be their poster boy one day, that he will carry their image, so I think he will be protected
Yeah, maybe WWE screws him and has him drop the belt at TLC. But you know why I think it won't happen. Miz is the new John Cena. Not in how much merch he sells (altough if you look around the arena, you will see many of his T-shirts, very good for him being an upper midcard heel) but in how he can be the face of the company. John Cena is the guy who does every interview, does every show, goes to every country, does everything for the company...and likes it. Miz does it as well. Plus, he already has the mainstream covering him. Just look around the net, The Miz becomes champion and TMZ, MTV.com, ESPN and others are talking about it.
WWE knows Miz will be their poster boy one day, that he will carry their image, so I think he will be protected
Very good point CMS. Again, Im not a fan of the guy, but he has grown on me. He knows his job and does it to the best of his ability. I can't tell you how many internet fans I've seen piss and moan about not having wrestlers that could talk. When one comes around, they come down on him. Im not saying Miz is going to be the next Ric Flair, but I think he's one of the best cool heel talkers since Austin. That's what Miz has become. The cool heel. The guy you love to hate. I remember when Miz and Morrison formed and most fans were saying how this was Morrison's jumping off point. Morrison didn't come off natural when he talked. Sounded very rehearsed. The camera loves Mizanin. I think a lot fans hate on him because of his MTV days. What fans don't realize is the kid had a pretty good amateur career in high school. Like I said before, his reign may not be too long, but this will not be his last. If anything, this first reign is going to bring him more fans. Again, Im not a fan of the guy, but he's still growing on me. In the same way that I love Vicky for being the annoying blabbermouth, I love Miz for working the crowd like a puppet.
As I rewatched the Miz win from RAW, IMO what put it over the top is the reaction the Miz had when he actually won the belt. He made it look like winning the championship actually meant something in the WWE. He didn't just hold the belt up like everyone else; he embraced it like it was the biggest accomplishment of his life (which it may have been). That's what the WWE needs more out of the WWE title changes.
...still speechless. I'll edit this post when I get this rag out of my mouth to prevent me from screaming to the tip of my lungs.
You are right, the WWE books everything perfect. The Miz wasn't a midcard wrestler the first 4 years of his career. He's main evented several PPV's on his rise to the championship. He's had several ppv fueds against the likes of Cena, Orton, HHH, Undertaker, HBK, and others. Just kidding, but i do like his rise through the tag championship and mid card championship. But he never really fueded in any major ppv's with top tier guys.
I never said the WWE didn't just throw the belt on Swagger but at least he held that meaningless ECW belt. And when he won MITB, it was on that little show called Wrestlemania in his WM debut.
I don't even want to debate this....by the time we settle this, Miz won't be champ anymore. Besides, I like Miz, i just wish they would have waited a little longer, rather than giving him a cheap first title reign.
(see video below for good booking in the states)
He feuded with Cena in a PPV and beyond with some actual good ring and mic work. No one has been built for a first title reign having to have major PPV feuds with HBK, HHH, Cena, Taker, etc. because its unrealistic. Why is he feudung with champion quality guys who mostly feud over titles and such. The Miz has shown that he can hang with the Orton's and Cena's coming from hosting wet T-Shirt contest on Smackdown in 05. Honestly, he is a true WWE rags to riches story.
Unrealistic???
John Cena fueded with Undertaker in 2005, Randy Orton also feuded with the Undertaker, Angle, ROck and Sock...HBK was fueding with Diesel before his first title reign. Batista was groomed with Evolution, and fueding with Rock and Sock connection. HHH was paired with HBK. Bret Hart was fueding with Roddy Piper. .... Edge, and Ric Flair... Need me to go on???
But you are right. Miz did wrestle John Cena at "the bash" which is now no longer a ppv, in about a 5 minute squash match over a year ago.
Long story short, he just doesn't feel like a main eventer yet. A lot of superstars had major fueds with main event talent before winingn their first world championship. And yes, Miz had a ton of promos with Orton/Cena... he was never built up to be equal to them. He was always booked like a midcard wrestler getting squashed by guys like Cena.
John Cena fueded with Undertaker in 2005, Randy Orton also feuded with the Undertaker, Angle, ROck and Sock...HBK was fueding with Diesel before his first title reign. Batista was groomed with Evolution, and fueding with Rock and Sock connection. HHH was paired with HBK. Bret Hart was fueding with Roddy Piper. .... Edge, and Ric Flair... Need me to go on???
But you are right. Miz did wrestle John Cena at "the bash" which is now no longer a ppv, in about a 5 minute squash match over a year ago.
Long story short, he just doesn't feel like a main eventer yet. A lot of superstars had major fueds with main event talent before winingn their first world championship. And yes, Miz had a ton of promos with Orton/Cena... he was never built up to be equal to them. He was always booked like a midcard wrestler getting squashed by guys like Cena.
^^^Yeah ,because I ALWAYS defend WWE, that's why the book everything perfectly.:rollleyes: I like how you put words in mouth to debate.
Almost every single person that has been world champion in the E, sans Hulk Hogan, Brock Lesnar and Sheamus, have spent large chunks of their career in the mid card. Austin, Rock, Hart, HBK, Savage, Eddy, HHH and so on. And all get pushed in a matter of months before they get their World title runs, hell, Bret Hart was a mid carder who's highest profile feud had been one month affairs with Perfect and Davey Boy before they threw the belt on him @ a freakin house show. Rock was a midcarder feuding over the IC title in August and World Champ by November's end. Eddy too. It really doesn't matter WHO you feud with BEFORE you get a world title run, it's who you feud with while champ. Eddy went from tagging with Chavo to feuding with Angle and JBL. Hart went from dropping the IC strap to Davey to taking the strap from Flair. In retrospect, did any of that affect the perceptions of either's legacies? No.
And beyond you're dissatisfaction with whom he didn't feud with as a midcarder, you still haven't explained why you think they "just threw" the belt on him. The comparison to Swagger is irrelevant despite him winning it at Mania, he cashed it in within a month, no one cared about the guy before, during or after his reign. If you're going to say that he winning it at Mania is ok, well Miz won it at the inaugural PPV named after the match itself.
And then you go on to even mention how he rose through the ranks as a tag champ, mid card champ (adding some prestige AND stability to an often misused US title) and guy who wins the big match to get his first title shot. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but isn't that how a proper rise through the ranks is supposed to go? And not to mention that his character went from goofy, cocky ass to cocky, serious ass who became more focused in the ring. And then he was always kept in the fans minds that he was the #1 contender for the belt through Cole's verbal slurpings, through miscarried cash ins and basically the best promos on the Raw brand.
Again, there is nothing to substantiate your belief that they just "threw the belt" on him. No they didn't, he's been raising through the ranks since he joined the company, he won the namesake match of an inaugural PPV, won titles in the order of their importance and was slowly burned into the fans heads as he waited for his shot. Your requisite that a guy have main evented or feuded with top card guys before they are champ is wrong. Your assertion that the "meaningless" title that Swagger held before he won the MITB at Wrestlemania trumps Miz holding a mid card title that was on more PPVs than the ECW belt and he winning the MITB at the first MITB ppv is even further off base. Who did Swagger feud with as ECW champ? Matt Hardy? Miz at least had a one off with Cena and held tag straps with Big Show and had matches with DX, that alone trumps ANYTHING Swagger ever did before they just threw the belt on him. Miz is in a better position and booked better than Swagger has ever been, and they just didn't "throw the belt on him." A 5 month build and a 4 year rise through the ranks is anything but.
BTW, when good booking, I meant booking that draws money, not just the same fanboy audience.
Almost every single person that has been world champion in the E, sans Hulk Hogan, Brock Lesnar and Sheamus, have spent large chunks of their career in the mid card. Austin, Rock, Hart, HBK, Savage, Eddy, HHH and so on. And all get pushed in a matter of months before they get their World title runs, hell, Bret Hart was a mid carder who's highest profile feud had been one month affairs with Perfect and Davey Boy before they threw the belt on him @ a freakin house show. Rock was a midcarder feuding over the IC title in August and World Champ by November's end. Eddy too. It really doesn't matter WHO you feud with BEFORE you get a world title run, it's who you feud with while champ. Eddy went from tagging with Chavo to feuding with Angle and JBL. Hart went from dropping the IC strap to Davey to taking the strap from Flair. In retrospect, did any of that affect the perceptions of either's legacies? No.
And beyond you're dissatisfaction with whom he didn't feud with as a midcarder, you still haven't explained why you think they "just threw" the belt on him. The comparison to Swagger is irrelevant despite him winning it at Mania, he cashed it in within a month, no one cared about the guy before, during or after his reign. If you're going to say that he winning it at Mania is ok, well Miz won it at the inaugural PPV named after the match itself.
And then you go on to even mention how he rose through the ranks as a tag champ, mid card champ (adding some prestige AND stability to an often misused US title) and guy who wins the big match to get his first title shot. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but isn't that how a proper rise through the ranks is supposed to go? And not to mention that his character went from goofy, cocky ass to cocky, serious ass who became more focused in the ring. And then he was always kept in the fans minds that he was the #1 contender for the belt through Cole's verbal slurpings, through miscarried cash ins and basically the best promos on the Raw brand.
Again, there is nothing to substantiate your belief that they just "threw the belt" on him. No they didn't, he's been raising through the ranks since he joined the company, he won the namesake match of an inaugural PPV, won titles in the order of their importance and was slowly burned into the fans heads as he waited for his shot. Your requisite that a guy have main evented or feuded with top card guys before they are champ is wrong. Your assertion that the "meaningless" title that Swagger held before he won the MITB at Wrestlemania trumps Miz holding a mid card title that was on more PPVs than the ECW belt and he winning the MITB at the first MITB ppv is even further off base. Who did Swagger feud with as ECW champ? Matt Hardy? Miz at least had a one off with Cena and held tag straps with Big Show and had matches with DX, that alone trumps ANYTHING Swagger ever did before they just threw the belt on him. Miz is in a better position and booked better than Swagger has ever been, and they just didn't "throw the belt on him." A 5 month build and a 4 year rise through the ranks is anything but.
BTW, when good booking, I meant booking that draws money, not just the same fanboy audience.
Fuck, slightly discount my Bret Hart point, I forgot about his Piper feud. But at that time, Piper hadn't wrestled full time in over 5 years and he had never held a title in the E, nor ever had a big match after Mania 1 besides his side show with T. If anything, Piper's recognition as a main eventer is similar to Kane without any titles. A upper midcard guy whom anyone could take. Piper had no major bragging rights or even a high spot on the card after 87.
I wouldn't say i put words in your mouth, you said " That's about as close as you get to perfect booking here in the states" and i agree'd cause the WWE books everything perfect, which is why they are leading the industry with a universe of fans.
Where to start with all this. It seems your biggest problem with what i said was that i felt they threw the belt on him, and i think when i said that, you were thinking his whole "rise to the belt" WHen i said "throw the belt" on him it was more in regards to winning MITB and using it to win the belt. Forget the past wtih Miz/Swagger. I feel it's a cheap way for a wrestler to win his first championship. That's why guys like CM Punk, Shaemus, and Jack Swagger are all former champs, but yet not really full time main eventers. Hell, Punk and Swagger are practically back to mid card status. I know Shaemus didn't win MITB, but they practically gave him a cheap title win for shock value. So the throwing the belt on Miz, basically comes from the MITB concept. It worked for Edge, but now it's over done with the large amount of chicken heels, and a lack of dominant heels.
As far as Miz's credentials, all things considered he's came up, better than most of the recent champs with the Tag belts, and Mid card title. I like that, as i said. I feel he was basically at the mid card level, and skipped the upper mid card stage. Which can be done, but i felt he was squashed way too much on Raw to it's top guys on TV. It almost felt like Miz was good enough on Raw to cut promos with Cena, but not good enough for a credible challenge at a PPV. And that's where we are now with Miz. Excellent on the mic, with great promo skills, but is it believable that Miz can beat Randy Orton or John Cena, healthy at full strength on a PPV, cleanly. I say no, but the WWE may give him 1 PPV win, two at the most. Not at this point in his career will he get a long meaning run as champ. Maybe after Wrestlemania 27.
And i have to disagree about Miz adding prestige to the US title while champ. How so??? With his classic matches with R-Truth and MVP? The US title has been used decently over it's career as many US champs, eventually win wwe/world titles. I guess now that's he's a world champ, that makes him look better, but as champ i don't recall anyone talking about any of his matches, other than his loss to Daniel Bryan.
Where to start with all this. It seems your biggest problem with what i said was that i felt they threw the belt on him, and i think when i said that, you were thinking his whole "rise to the belt" WHen i said "throw the belt" on him it was more in regards to winning MITB and using it to win the belt. Forget the past wtih Miz/Swagger. I feel it's a cheap way for a wrestler to win his first championship. That's why guys like CM Punk, Shaemus, and Jack Swagger are all former champs, but yet not really full time main eventers. Hell, Punk and Swagger are practically back to mid card status. I know Shaemus didn't win MITB, but they practically gave him a cheap title win for shock value. So the throwing the belt on Miz, basically comes from the MITB concept. It worked for Edge, but now it's over done with the large amount of chicken heels, and a lack of dominant heels.
As far as Miz's credentials, all things considered he's came up, better than most of the recent champs with the Tag belts, and Mid card title. I like that, as i said. I feel he was basically at the mid card level, and skipped the upper mid card stage. Which can be done, but i felt he was squashed way too much on Raw to it's top guys on TV. It almost felt like Miz was good enough on Raw to cut promos with Cena, but not good enough for a credible challenge at a PPV. And that's where we are now with Miz. Excellent on the mic, with great promo skills, but is it believable that Miz can beat Randy Orton or John Cena, healthy at full strength on a PPV, cleanly. I say no, but the WWE may give him 1 PPV win, two at the most. Not at this point in his career will he get a long meaning run as champ. Maybe after Wrestlemania 27.
And i have to disagree about Miz adding prestige to the US title while champ. How so??? With his classic matches with R-Truth and MVP? The US title has been used decently over it's career as many US champs, eventually win wwe/world titles. I guess now that's he's a world champ, that makes him look better, but as champ i don't recall anyone talking about any of his matches, other than his loss to Daniel Bryan.