Taker! Brock! WWE! UFC! Speculation!!

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From the Bloody Elbow, apparently:

A couple of weeks back, Fucking Fucking Dana White floated the idea of Brock Lesnar and Frank Mir as the coaches for the next season of The Ultimate Fighter. That notion was almost immediately followed by the news that Frank Mir had agreed to fight Brendan Schaub instead.

Obviously something happened there to make Dana and the Spike TV brass pass on what would have been the best rated show since Kimbo Slice, maybe even bigger. We now know, via the Wrestling Observer (subscription only) Brock turned it down. No surprise that the reclusive Lesnar didn't want to spend six weeks in Vegas being taped every day.

What does Lesnar want to do? According to Meltzer (and other sources Bloody Elbow has been in contact with inside the pro wrestling world), Lesnar would like to make a few million bucks headlining WrestleMania. The Undertaker already did a brilliant job of inserting himself into the Brock Lesnar vs Cain Velasquez narrative at UFC 121.

Meltzer painted a scenario in which Lesnar would indeed coach TUF in return for being allowed to do WrestleMania:

Spike would absolutely love that one, because it'll do the best ratings of all. Plus, UFC would love it because after 13 weeks of that, it almost guarantees a giant buy rate and they would then do that match after all. But I see that as unlikely, because Lesnar leaving Minnesota for six weeks in Las Vegas with two little kids is going to be very difficult for Fucking Fucking Dana White to pull off. Not that it's going to happen, but I wonder if making a deal where White lets Lesnar do Mania in exchange for doing the show would work out for both. Lesnar gets his big payday. White gets what would likely be the second highest rated season of the series and can do the biggest money non-championship fight of 2011. The filming of the season would be over by March, in time for Lesnar to promote Mania, and then after Mania, in theory he could do a summer fight. Lesnar's autobiography he's doing with Paul Heyman is scheduled for a mid-April release and the season will air starting 3/30, which is perfect timing as far as being on weekly TV in a highly rated show right as the book comes out. However, even with that, the impression I've been given is that it's going to be difficult, if not impossible, to get Lesnar to agree to spend six weeks straight in Las Vegas. Plus, Lesnar wouldn't be much of a coach. Good coaches are guys who understand and can refine technique and training. Lesnar is a great listener and great student of a coach who knows him, but he's never been the most technical even at wrestling, and certainly isn't at this sport. Lesnar/White appear to be an some sort of an impasse in that White is trying to get something done with Lesnar and Lesnar hasn't spoken with him or committed to anything. And Lesnar does still want to do Mania. Vince was apparently still saying as of this weekend that they think they can get Lesnar for Mania. For Spike, Lesnar-Mir is the best pairing for ratings.

Vince McMahon remains optimistic that he can still get Lesnar. Dave Meltzer explains why on his subscribers only message board:

He's Vince McMahon and Fucking Fucking Dana White likes to stay on Vince McMahon's good side. And Vince likes to stay on Fucking Fucking Dana White's good side. And he thinks he can make his wife a senator, so making a deal for Brock Lesnar doesn't sound impossible.

Cage Side Seats sums it all up:

I think Vince should just be grateful that Dana hasn't booked a PPV on WrestleMania weekend again, after Vince orchestrated a worked shoot angle on Dana's turf without his knowledge. This is something Dana is simply not going to budge on unless lawyers get involved and his hand is forced.

So what's the latest state of play in this promotional love triangle, courtesy of this week's Observers:

* Meltzer suggested that UFC may need to pull a rabbit out of a hat for their own domed super show, UFC 129 at Toronto's Rogers Centre on April 30th 2011, and that a Lesnar fight could be that rabbit.
* As reported earlier by Meltzer, all of WWE's other WrestleMania celebrity ideas are almost certainly dead in the water, so Vince is presumably still banking on Lesnar being able to do the show. One idea that is now impossible, and thus Meltzer can confirm the name of, was NBA mega heel LeBron James. That idea is out because the Miami Heat has a basketball game on the same day as Mania.

We've been having an interesting discussion this week on Bloody Elbow about UFC monopolies, Fighter Unions, and Zuffa Finances and here is a brilliant case study of what happens when the UFC needs an athlete more than he needs the UFC. I've speculated already that Brock may not even return to the UFC. He doesn't need the money. He's already famous. He doesn't like getting punched in the face.

Brock Lesnar is not a UFC creation. He became a famous attraction in the WWE. He had become a much more compelling figure as a competitor in a real sport, well known for his propensity to lash out publicly and say things that Dana and UFC sponsors don't want to hear. That's a little ironic since Lesnar's failing in the WWE was his limited ability to sell a character on the microphone. Turns out the real Brock is a lot scarier than the fake Brock.

Fucking Fucking Dana White is on the horns of a dilemma here. If he wants Brock to headline a Toronto show, or even better coach TUF, he might have to bend and let Lesnar appear on WrestleMania. But letting one of the UFC's top stars participate in a worked sports entertainment spectacle could damage the UFC brand.

Those who continue to insist that the parallels between MMA and Pro Wrestling are overstated should think on this: why is it that Floyd Mayweather can do WrestleMania and no one suggests even for a minute that it somehow damages boxing and yet the same is not true for Lesnar and the UFC.

This entire mess just reinforces my belief that it is better for the UFC if the growth of the sport plateaus for a few more years while Zuffa consolidates its monopsony control of the market for martial artists. The WWE won't be producing any more MMA-ready stars like Lesnar since MMA is now getting the top wrestling talent right out of college or the Olympics.

The biggest headache a would be monopsonist like Fucking Fucking Dana White can have is a star like Brock Lesnar who has a fan base of his own independent of the promotion and competing offers for his services.

The ball is in Dana's hands. He can go for the short-term money and give Brock Lesnar what he wants or he can hold on to control and bet that the UFC is now big enough to get through 2011 without its biggest star of 2009 and 2010.

Fun read, but I doubt it happens as Lesnar wouldn't do the job and Taker's streak isn't going to be ended by a guy doing a one-off. But I much like the idea of Lesnar telling Dana to fuck off because when you think of it, Lesnar has the marketability and popularity to break up the UFC monopoly and help legitimize MMA as a global sport instead of a band of promotions with a completely askew balance of power. Thoughts??
 

Hometown Kid

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My thoughts are for one, we agree on Dana White being a carny promoter. ;D

Secondly, why would Lesnar not do the job? He doesn't care about his WWE reputation, and the UFC fans already know it would be a work. Lesnar wouldn't suffer at all, Taker's streak would live on, he'd get to set up a HUGE 20-0 retirement match with Cena next year, Lesnar would get millions...

The only thing stopping this is that clown Dana having his head so far up his own ass. Like I said in the 'Mania thread, I had a feeling WWE knows how much money there losing and how they can't fix their disastrous state of operations over night. So they're keeping everything on cruise control right now and wanting Lesnar to pop a million+ buyrate, which I think he's such a big name now he would easily.
 

phantomgerald

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As if Vince would let Taker fight in an MMA match. All promoters just want to protect their assets.
 
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My thoughts are for one, we agree on Dana White being a carny promoter. ;D

Secondly, why would Lesnar not do the job? He doesn't care about his WWE reputation, and the UFC fans already know it would be a work. Lesnar wouldn't suffer at all, Taker's streak would live on, he'd get to set up a HUGE 20-0 retirement match with Cena next year, Lesnar would get millions...

The only thing stopping this is that clown Dana having his head so far up his own ass. Like I said in the 'Mania thread, I had a feeling WWE knows how much money there losing and how they can't fix their disastrous state of operations over night. So they're keeping everything on cruise control right now and wanting Lesnar to pop a million+ buyrate, which I think he's such a big name now he would easily.

What's disastrous? Their profits are not what they were 10 years ago but they reported profits every quarter this year.
 

Hometown Kid

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Disastrous sounds more dramatic than mediocre to average. >_> I still stand by what I said about Brock/WWE though. They don't have much without Brock this year for 'Mania that will get a positive mainstream buzz.
 
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I'd love for Brock to come back and stiff arm his way through the entire midcard, and perhaps a few main eventers too.

Shit, have him come back to Smackdown and annihilate the entire show roster, with the exception of Kane, Edge and Del Rio.
 

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Brock's such a huge household name right now that in order for WWE to get him back, they'd have to virtually offer him creative control. Because if they didn't he'd just bail out anyway the moment they told him he was going to lose to someone he didn't want to lose to.

Brock had a decent run with the UFC. But Dana is having the exact same problems. Brock is too big for the UFC. Or at least, he's big enough now that HE gets to make the demands of the company, not the other way around.

Brock is rich enough now that he doesn't HAVE to join either promotion again if he doesn't want to. He can live his life comfortably for the rest of his days. So it's ultimately up to which company wants it more. Will UFC swallow their PRIDE (pardon the pun) in order to get a few more paydays out of Lesnar? Or will the WWE cave into his demands for an epic Wrestlemania cash cow?

If either of them are not willing to make sacrifices, Lesnar can just give them both the finger and walk. I think it's about time that the entertainment industry was dropped on it's head and out of it's comfort zone in the first place to where they actually have to consider making a hard decision and put their money where their mouth is.
 

nation

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This is just not going to fucking happen. Lesnar is under exclusive contract with the UFC. After he has finished his fight obligations it might but not now. Hell no. Dana isn't going to co-promote MMA with pro wrestling. Not going to happen period. It would be sweet to see but it's not going to happen now.
 

CMS

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I am not going to pretend I know shit about MMA, but I did read a report saying that Brock's UFC contract only has one more fight on it. That, and that Lesnar actually wants to be at Wrestlemania and has been in contact with WWE, while he hasn't answered his phone to UFC.

I don't know, I don't see why Dana or UFC wouldn't allow Brock to be on the event. I get not letting him wrestle, but how many times have both Vince and Dana say their companies aren't competition to one another? Supposedly then, the other reason for not letting Brock be at the event that would be helping an adversary pop a bigger buyrate would be out of the picture.

I am biased, but I just don't see how would it affect anybody if Brock is the special enforcer on a match.

But btw, how on Earth would WWE book it? Undertaker is after all a deadman with powers on WWE programming...
 

...god...

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John Cena vs. The Undertaker w/ Brock Lesnar as special referee. That's fucking MONEY!
 

phantomgerald

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That's what they say but how can the UFC and WWE not be rivals? There is only so much money a person have to fork out for a PPV so some of the income is linked.