Rate Raw 6/12/2017

[Jeremiah]

You have quickly become one of the gang :emoji_slight_smile:

this is me after that comment

 

[irish_stu]

Was pretty poor again, opening segment wigh Brock and Joe was good (aside from losing the picture)

So much of what is going on is just meh, we all know that Cass will turn on Enzo..so just get on with it already.

Womans stuff was awful again

Miz has gone from being in my opinion the best heel in the company to a joke and i truly have no time for anything Ambrose does, character bores me and frankly his work in the ring is a bit lazy.

Main event was looking really good until the we fart of an ending with the double count and draw...WTF.

Is it just me or do WWE seem to always be looking at the next week, set up next week then next week, then next week without ever actually doing anything. I used to love coming to the end of RAW and something would have happened something to make you excited, now the show just seems to fizzle out and end.

 

[Snowman1]

If this was a rare exception and/or a case in which perhaps WWE basically gave up on the night knowing they were up against the NBA Finals, I'd honestly give them a pass but being this has practically been the norm in...forever (certainly feels like it), there's just no excuse.

This show was so bad I can't even rant about it cause if I begin going through all the garbage we got, I may end up throwing up and that's the last thing I need. Quite frankly, it's come to the point where it ain't funny any more and I find no reason to waste my time when it appears that WWE themselves seemingly don't give a shit. If they don't give a shit, why should we?

Once upon time WWE television was literally must see and can’t miss. A time when creative was actually…creative and you had great storylines leading to countless memorable matches and/or moments. A time when RAW would go off the air and left you wanting more, even if it was just another 5-10 minutes. A time when you wished the next show was the following,night but instead had you counting days till next Monday would roll around. A time when you couldn’t wait for Tuesday morning to talk about what had happened the night before with your friends at school or work or wherever. How times have changed…

Without obviously discovering America or anything all of a sudden, I feel that the main reason for this downwards trend over the years is the lack of any serious, legitimate competition. All these other smaller promotions or shows that are around may be decent (at best, at least some of them from the little that I know since I don't follow anything else) but, let’s face it, they are nowhere near WWE’s caliber and with no realistic competition, in my view WWE don’t have the urge to better themselves. If you need a better understanding of the point I am trying to make, what better example to give you than the birth of the Attitude Era and how it all began back then. This may probably sound a bit simplistic but, let’s be real, it's WWE we are talking about, not quantum fucking science.

Based on the above which I consider the main reason for where we are at today, you can then look at all the little things surrounding it because from this point on, in my eyes it's basically a chain reaction.

Take creative for example…or should I say the lack thereof? Good and compelling storylines have simply become extinct. I remember back in the day there was clearly a vision and you had stories being told in the span of months (if not even an entire year), stories that had us invested, a serious build leading to whichever big match which would almost always be highly anticipated. Nowadays it seems like long term booking ain’t part of the plan (with perhaps a handful of rare exceptions) and very often stories are a result of poor rehashing of old stuff or just lazy last minute throwaways with little to none thinking behind it. Look at Jinder Mahal for instance: “oh, you Americans this, this and that”, the typical anti-American card that has been played over and over and over again. Newsflash Vince, it's gotten old. In all fairness, RAW have a couple of story lines lately that do have an interesting build (obviously referring to the Kurt Angle situation or the mystery attacker backstage) so it's not like they all of a sudden forgot how to put a good show together, which basically makes the entire situation even more frustrating.

Another example is the overexposure of the product. Once again, not discovering anything new here but the fact of the matter is, nowadays it’s like…wrestling overload. Three hours of RAW, two hours of Smackdown, one hour of 205 Live and another hour of NXT, which is then often followed (feels like every other week at times) by a three or four (occasionally five or seven) hour fucking PPV on Sundays, not counting the times when there’s an NXT Takeover on Saturdays as well. That’s a lot of fucking wrestling and especially these PPV’s have seemingly gone out of control. I’m not saying that it should go back to what was once known as the Big 4 (that were the only four) but this thing today is just overkill. Needless to say, with all these shows and all these hours every week, no wonder creativity is burnt out and nonexistent, once again leading us back to the chain reaction I mentioned above. How can you expect creative to keep up and deliver compelling stories consistently when you’re basically burning them on a daily basis? How can you avoid all these filler shows we get from time to time? How can you produce three fucking quality hours of RAW every week? The answer is simple: you just can’t. How do you expect the fans to follow EVERTHING? I mean, hardcore and all, there comes a point where you just can't take anymore and this is without even mentioning those that on the side follow a ROH or a Lucha Underground or whatever other promotion is out there.

When talking about overexposure, social media has it’s little share I feel in this deal. Now, personally (and I've mentioned this before) I don’t even have a twitter account (let alone use it) but with all the social media around these days and obviously the internet, spoilers are inevitable and while one can easily avoid them (like I do), I feel this leads to a certain element lacking that once was pretty crucial for the show: the element of surprise. It’s exactly why RAW was must watch and can’t miss. You didn’t know what’s going to happen or who may show up on any given Monday. Nowadays it’s like “Brock Lesnar will be on RAW next week” or "the Undertaker returns next week on RAW"; almost everything is announced ahead of time whereas back then they’d just hit the music without you ever see it coming, hence the surprise, which is why we have countless memorable moments. Problem is, who can blame them? Things have gotten so stale these days that the fans don’t give a shit, leading to low ticket sales and new record lows as far as ratings are concerned, thus forcing WWE to announce shit ahead of time. But while announcing stuff may sell a few more tickets or get a few more pairs of eyes tuning in on TV, it doesn't solve the problem.

I’m closing in on almost a thousand words and as you may have noticed there’s been no mention of the talent itself whatsoever. But why would I when they are the last to be blamed for this mess? Last I recall, none of us ever complained about the in ring action and I am pretty confident to say that the current generation of stars is by far the best wrestling has ever seen. If there’s one thing they are “guilty” about, it’s…following the script. In other words, it’s not about why they can or can’t do in the ring in terms of performance but the way they are used overall, whether it’s a Roman Reigns shoved down our throats or a Bray Wyatt never living up to his words, hence the eater of pins joke.

It's funny that i started off this post with "why should we give a shit when WWE themselves seemingly don't" quote and ended up typing over a thousand words talking about it. If only WWE cared as much as us the fans do....

...I'm going to be that guy.

While I've been along-side you fighting the fight that it's all Creative and not the roster, I.... Well.

One of my favorite talents on the roster is Seth Rollins. The poster child for a character WWE just gave up on, Seth turned babyface while questing for revenge for a guy that disappeared off camera for months, and he just... did stuff. For months. We're living in the post-NXT era where we've really seen just how much he's in dire need of character development, but... Let me ask you. When was the last time there was a Seth Rollins match that really made you run and say WATCH THIS!!!"

Sure overexposure is an issue and we can say there's good wrestling on on all these shows you mentioned. But the kind of stuff Seth Rollins is capable of... Before arguably that match with Roman a couple of weeks ago, the last time I heard people get hyped about a Seth Rollins match was in January against Sami Zayn. The rest have been marred by terrible storytelling, in there with outdated/lousy workers or just shackled by WWE... then you realize just how unbelievable the talent roster is. Why isn't the wrestling better? Even if they can't fix the writing, why aren't we raving about watching so much exciting action?

Anyway, I was thinking back like you did to when it fell off... You said the lack of competition... I'm really starting to wonder if it's the lack of kayfabe, and WWE trying way too hard to fit the "modern era".
Like... For example, the promos. If they listen to Twitter feedback (which is pretty evident), promos are really judged by the mic skills of the performer. "Oh, Miz cut one hell of a promo!! He's such a great heel!" and... It feels like what's actually said in the promo is so secondary, so creative can be like "hey Alexa go out and read this bullshit we wrote in 5 minutes, it's okay they'll love you anyway"...

I'll be behind Seth Rollins as a wrestler, and the Twitterverse will kiss his ass for "putting on good matches", and it'll make them feel like they don't have to develop his character. If I can cheer for Seth Rollins right NOW of all times then why should WWE try? Why should they when many live events, Raws, PPV's, Wrestlemanias, all sell out not even knowing the card? Maybe they are with the modern times, and Stephanie's talks of marketing and branding are true, as well as them caring about "reactions" with the top guys...

I... Haven't been watching for the last few weeks after Backlash... not because of Jinder but because (and Grievous will love this) of the women's match. I saw the build to that as one of those where you see it in hindsight and realize what they were doing, even though you didn't care (or even notice it happening) about it going in... On NXT they did plenty of this, and after the Takeover match you realize what they were doing, and paid attention and noticed it next time after it helped develop a character... The story going in was simply "Charlotte has done a lot of despicable things and proven to be a selfish, shitty person ever since coming to the main roster. Naomi isn't sure she can trust her to fend off this stable..." And you could have taken one of two roads. You can either A: have Naomi take the heat (ugh), have her cornered and cut off as Becky is KO'ed, and Naomi HAS to trust Charlotte and then BAM. Hot tag, Charlotte cleans house, Natural Selection, 1-2-3, Naomi's faith is rewarded and Charlotte's established as a white meat babyface... OR B:. Charlotte can jump off the ropes, metaphorically flips the bird to Naomi and talks about how all she needs is herself, leaves the match and the heels win with a 3-on-2 advantage... Instead, they had a Smackdown match and Natalya won clean and none of the buildup mattered and everyone's like "lol why was this even here" and nobody else will remember this.

See also, the Angle and Graves angle. Sure, in theory "WWE should be doing more stuff like this!" and they should... but there's two problems...
One is that it's bringing Stephanie back to TV which is awful.
Second... I feel like they've gotta earn our trust with this. When I saw it for the first time I instantly thought of the "who texted Kevin Nash" horse shit from 2011, and even better the "who was the anonymous GM". Pay off this angle well before we care about the next one.

Rant over... Someday I'll be positive again. I swear.

 

[Grievous 3D]

(and Grievous will love this) of the women's match. I saw the build to that as one of those where you see it in hindsight and realize what they were doing, even though you didn't care (or even notice it happening) about it going in... On NXT they did plenty of this, and after the Takeover match you realize what they were doing, and paid attention and noticed it next time after it helped develop a character... The story going in was simply "Charlotte has done a lot of despicable things and proven to be a selfish, shitty person ever since coming to the main roster. Naomi isn't sure she can trust her to fend off this stable..." And you could have taken one of two roads. You can either A: have Naomi take the heat (ugh), have her cornered and cut off as Becky is KO'ed, and Naomi HAS to trust Charlotte and then BAM. Hot tag, Charlotte cleans house, Natural Selection, 1-2-3, Naomi's faith is rewarded and Charlotte's established as a white meat babyface... OR B:. Charlotte can jump off the ropes, metaphorically flips the bird to Naomi and talks about how all she needs is herself, leaves the match and the heels win with a 3-on-2 advantage... Instead, they had a Smackdown match and Natalya won clean and none of the buildup mattered and everyone's like "lol why was this even here" and nobody else will remember this.

You're 100% right...and the SmackDown Women's division has basically been "treading water" since before Wrestlemania.
Hopefully after MitB each woman will be standing on her own and some true feuds can develop.

No more factions, no more 6 woman tags, no more pointless filler arcs/matches...

I say let Charlotte and Naomi feud face vs. face and let Naomi defeat her CLEAN
and then let someone like Natalya or even Carmella have a shot...that is if they
don't win the white briefcase of history.

 

[BeardsOfWarjStylesXL]

raw is awful, nothing can save it but Vince doesn't care...