Is Roman Reigns' worldwide popularity grossly understated?

  • Welcome to "The New" Wrestling Smarks Forum!

    I see that you are not currently registered on our forum. It only takes a second, and you can even login with your Facebook! If you would like to register now, pease click here: Register

    Once registered please introduce yourself in our introduction thread which can be found here: Introduction Board


Zarathos

Jobber
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
7
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Age
48
Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but after Wrestlemania I was totally confused. Before that Roman was cheered and loved by the crowds it seemed like. Then the very next night he gets booed? I don't get it. And he has been booed ever since. Then Rollins shows up, who was booed constantly before he got injured, and he is cheered when he takes out Roman and grabs the belt? Did I miss something?
 

Swift

Alien Princess
Banned
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
34,351
Reaction score
8,347
Points
0
Location
Outerspace
Reigns drawing like the champ that he is :obama:
 

Swift

Alien Princess
Banned
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
34,351
Reaction score
8,347
Points
0
Location
Outerspace
Really though, is ANYONE a huge draw nowadays? Aside from like Cena and Lesnar. Taker and Rock too I guess, if they count.
 

Solidus1

eXit
Joined
Dec 25, 2011
Messages
15,712
Reaction score
4,672
Points
0
Did I miss something?

Not really, crowds can't make their minds up it seems.
Edit: Oh. they do have a guy edit out boos on Raw for him. Sometimes he doesn't do such a good job.
 

Gman003

The Lunatic Fringe
Hotshot
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
2,065
Reaction score
658
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Ontario, Canada
Roman has been booed for longer than that. I didn't watch at royal rumble 2015 but from what I heard he was booed when he won? Might be wrong but I'm just going off of what I have been told
 

Solidus1

eXit
Joined
Dec 25, 2011
Messages
15,712
Reaction score
4,672
Points
0
Roman has been booed for longer than that. I didn't watch at royal rumble 2015 but from what I heard he was booed when he won? Might be wrong but I'm just going off of what I have been told

Massively. Not even The Rock could sway the crowd.
 

Zarathos

Jobber
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
7
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Age
48
Cool, thanks for the replies. i haven't been watching that long. I've only been watching since Summer Slam 2015 and haven't missed RAW, Smackdown or a pay per view since. I'm addicted. I grew up watching WWF with Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant back in the day. And I loved the Undertaker in the early 1990s. They I stopped watching for years. Now I'm back into it. My wife can't stand it and won't watch it with me. So I needed an outlet and came across this forum. ;-) i've also been getting caught up on all the Wrestlemanias on WWE Network. I'm through XX so far.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Solidus1

Gman003

The Lunatic Fringe
Hotshot
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
2,065
Reaction score
658
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Ontario, Canada
Cool, thanks for the replies. i haven't been watching that long. I've only been watching since Summer Slam 2015 and haven't missed RAW, Smackdown or a pay per view since. I'm addicted. I grew up watching WWF with Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant back in the day. And I loved the Undertaker in the early 1990s. They I stopped watching for years. Now I'm back into it. My wife can't stand it and won't watch it with me. So I needed an outlet and came across this forum. ;-) i've also been getting caught up on all the Wrestlemanias on WWE Network. I'm through XX so far.

That makes two of us my friend. I watched as I grew up from 95-97 periodically then 98-05 pretty much every week (not 1 ppv though. Parents wouldn't spend the money for me. Boo) then I stopped until wrestlemania 31 so 10 years. And I stumbled upon this forum because of the same reason, wife can't stand it and only 1 buddy follows still, but doesn't really even watch the weekly episodes.

Welcome aboard, this is a great place for discussion!
 

Jacob Fox

Quiet You
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
59,061
Reaction score
12,439
Points
118
Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but after Wrestlemania I was totally confused. Before that Roman was cheered and loved by the crowds it seemed like. Then the very next night he gets booed? I don't get it. And he has been booed ever since. Then Rollins shows up, who was booed constantly before he got injured, and he is cheered when he takes out Roman and grabs the belt? Did I miss something?

I definitely wouldn't say Reigns was cheered and loved by the crowds before Wrestlemania if you're implying he was always cheered and loved by them. Reigns has been the object of both cheering crowds and booing crowds ever since his main event push began. Simply watch the 2016 Royal Rumble and he was booed harshly when he returned to the ring and the crowd cheered like crazy when he was eliminated.

The problem I think with most of this argument is the use of anecdotal evidence as opposed to viewing the entire situation as a whole. I pretty much feel StopSpot has been dead on because he is not looking at anecdotal evidence and extrapolating it to Reigns' entire run. The OP has done this several times. He also tends to discredit evidence that doesn't result in the conclusion that he wants. When presented with the television ratings, he states:

It has also been comprehensively proven that T.V ratings have hardly been having any adverse affect on the WWEs financials or the implied level of viewership.

I'd like to see the data from which you drew this conclusion. Not calling the OP a liar, but as a scientist I prefer to see the data than have someone explain it to me.

There are plenty of variables that drive financials and I think it would be naive to claim that TV ratings do not play a part. WWE has consistently reported record revenue in its first quarters but the percentage of that increase is very important. For example, in the year 2000, when the TV ratings were MUCH higher than they are right now, the increase in revenue from first quarter 1999 to first quarter 2000 was 34% (WWE Entertainment Announces First Quarter Results: Revenues Up 34%, Attributabl ...). But now, with much lower ratings than they had then, the increase is only 13% (WWE® Reports Strong First-Quarter 2016 Results). This percentage is calculated with Wrestlemania not being included in the total for 2015 and 2016 (PWTorch.com - WWE Q1 RESULTS: WWE reports First Quarter 2015 earnings - record quarter, effect of WrestleMania business, more). Ratings definitely play a part. In fact if you go back and look at the percentages per year, you would see that there is a similar trend... quarters with high ratings do have a higher percentage of revenue growth and those with low ratings have a lower percentage... at least for the ones I have checked. I've already spent more time than I care writing and editing this post over and over to go and post every quarter and do the math.

My point above is not calling the OP a liar, but just pointing out that he ignores a lot of variables whenhe is making a point.

I would also be hesitant about drawing the conclusion that the searches and YouTube views speak to his popularity, which makes sense because I think they also speak to his notoriety. I think there is a large group that wants to see Reigns as champion but there's an equal group that wants to see him lose. And I think that is what is important to the WWE right now. Not only does Reigns have many fans, but he also has a large contingent of viewers that really just want to see him lose and will likely keep watching in order to see it. But not only that, it's easier to watch parts of a YouTube video than sit through an entire three hours of Raw if the show is boring. Being a YouTube partner myself, I would rather know the retention rate of those videos with Roman Reigns in them than the views. The retention rate will let us know how many people are watching the entire match or just seeing part of it and moving on.

Plus I'd be really interested to see where the data from the graphs is since everything stated is completely unsourced. That's not me calling him a liar either, just remember I am a scientist and in my view data that is not sourced it pretty useless in making an argument.

So is his popularity grossly understated? I'd say no. But it's not just popularity that gets people to watch. Reigns has a combination of popularity and notoriety that together make Reigns definitely an interesting character in WWE.

Again, and this part is very important, I'm not really arguing here. I find the topic really interesting and I think seeing the data would make it more interesting. Given what I have been able to find out, I concede the possibility that the OP might be correct, but I just think the data is too anecdotal to draw that conclusion at this time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Solidus1

Zarathos

Jobber
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
7
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Age
48
That makes two of us my friend. I watched as I grew up from 95-97 periodically then 98-05 pretty much every week (not 1 ppv though. Parents wouldn't spend the money for me. Boo) then I stopped until wrestlemania 31 so 10 years. And I stumbled upon this forum because of the same reason, wife can't stand it and only 1 buddy follows still, but doesn't really even watch the weekly episodes.

Welcome aboard, this is a great place for discussion!

Cool thanks! Yeah, growing up I could never afford the ppvs either. I only see them now because I have a WWE Network subscription, which I love.
 

Gman003

The Lunatic Fringe
Hotshot
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
2,065
Reaction score
658
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Ontario, Canada
Yes me too. I kept hearing "$11.99 per month blah blah blah" so I said fucking eh. And got it.

My only problem is in canada we get a limited amount of old events to watch. We get all the Wrestlemanias and most of if not all summerslam but all the others are random or non existent. I love it though get to revisit old times.
 
Last edited:

CycLoNe_

Jobber
Joined
May 9, 2016
Messages
39
Reaction score
23
Points
0
I definitely wouldn't say Reigns was cheered and loved by the crowds before Wrestlemania if you're implying he was always cheered and loved by them. Reigns has been the object of both cheering crowds and booing crowds ever since his main event push began. Simply watch the 2016 Royal Rumble and he was booed harshly when he returned to the ring and the crowd cheered like crazy when he was eliminated.

Well to understand the root of the cause, we must go back in time to assess a few situations. Here's Reigns' crowd reaction on the RAW before Royal Rumble 15 ( the event that started this entire dispute) :



Certainly doesn't seem like the reaction of someone who is supposed to be booed out of the building in 6 days. So, the over-ness argument with regards to his competence is a pretty weakened one since he was easily one of the Top 3 most popular wrestlers at that point even among the US Live T.V audience. His pops at Slammy 14, TLC 14 (one of the biggest pops of the year) and just about every show from his return- Royal Rumble 15 reinforce the point. Funnily, there was a time when they could have put the belt on Reigns in the summer of 2014 and it would have actually been seen as a positive development as we were staring down the barrel to another Cena reign and a monotonous main event scene. The basic point being that the competence argument doesn't quite stack up as there were no traces of discontent for a long time, because his push started from as far back as Survivor Series 13 and his ascendancy was pretty apparent.

Now, to study the hostile crowd reactions for him since that is a whole different topic, personally I feel puzzled. It's one thing to criticize and hijack someone's career when they haven't done justice to the spot that they have been accorded, but the reaction of a certain section of fans to someone who hasn't even had a fair shot at the spot when someone who had a pretty mediocre 220+ day reign last year went completely unscathed from the same audience seems a bit disingenuous to me. Reigns has been no more Cena 2.0 than Rollins was HHH 2.0 last year, and the HHH reign of terror is one of the most frowned upon periods in wrestling history by the same section of fans.




The problem I think with most of this argument is the use of anecdotal evidence as opposed to viewing the entire situation as a whole. I pretty much feel StopSpot has been dead on because he is not looking at anecdotal evidence and extrapolating it to Reigns' entire run. The OP has done this several times. He also tends to discredit evidence that doesn't result in the conclusion that he wants. When presented with the television ratings, he states:



I'd like to see the data from which you drew this conclusion. Not calling the OP a liar, but as a scientist I prefer to see the data than have someone explain it to me.

Actually, I'd like to claim that the data I'm presenting is signifying the situation much more as a "whole" since it takes into consideration the entire domain of the WWE audience throughout the world! Studying the business as a US centric business in 2016 would not be the smartest thing to do in this day and age with the WWE network expansion and the fact that WWE is much more globalized a brand than ever before. Now, there's no dispute that US still remains the most important area of concern but it's no longer the be all and end all with regards to studying the financials.

There are plenty of variables that drive financials and I think it would be naive to claim that TV ratings do not play a part. WWE has consistently reported record revenue in its first quarters but the percentage of that increase is very important. For example, in the year 2000, when the TV ratings were MUCH higher than they are right now, the increase in revenue from first quarter 1999 to first quarter 2000 was 34% (WWE Entertainment Announces First Quarter Results: Revenues Up 34%, Attributabl ...). But now, with much lower ratings than they had then, the increase is only 13% (WWE® Reports Strong First-Quarter 2016 Results). This percentage is calculated with Wrestlemania not being included in the total for 2015 and 2016 (PWTorch.com - WWE Q1 RESULTS: WWE reports First Quarter 2015 earnings - record quarter, effect of WrestleMania business, more). Ratings definitely play a part. In fact if you go back and look at the percentages per year, you would see that there is a similar trend... quarters with high ratings do have a higher percentage of revenue growth and those with low ratings have a lower percentage... at least for the ones I have checked. I've already spent more time than I care writing and editing this post over and over to go and post every quarter and do the math.

I never said TV ratings don't play a part at all per se. I definitely acknowledge the fact that it's still the stream that brings the most revenue to the WWE. I was just pointing out the fact that despite the ratings falling 66%+ from 2000, WWE has still been able to sign monumental TV deals again and again because the scenario is changing every minute. A rating of 2.2 might seem dreadful in the scheme of things; but it is very much possible that this is just a part of the on going unilateral change towards the Internet. There's nothing the cable TV offers which the Internet can't and the change is pretty natural. The standard of viewership on Cable TV is a factor of the times. IMO, WWE isn't the party to be concerned here since it has already self sufficed itself for the intermediate future at least with the Network, the onus is more on the TV Networks to plan on how to counter his flow of audience away from the traditional medium of T.V. For perspective, here's a chart showing the growth of the Internet in terms of % of the population in the past two decades or so:

tfYfwbp.png


My point above is not calling the OP a liar, but just pointing out that he ignores a lot of variables when he is making a point.

I would also be hesitant about drawing the conclusion that the searches and YouTube views speak to his popularity, which makes sense because I think they also speak to his notoriety. I think there is a large group that wants to see Reigns as champion but there's an equal group that wants to see him lose. And I think that is what is important to the WWE right now. Not only does Reigns have many fans, but he also has a large contingent of viewers that really just want to see him lose and will likely keep watching in order to see it. But not only that, it's easier to watch parts of a YouTube video than sit through an entire three hours of Raw if the show is boring. Being a YouTube partner myself, I would rather know the retention rate of those videos with Roman Reigns in them than the views. The retention rate will let us know how many people are watching the entire match or just seeing part of it and moving on.

Actually, the data I've posted contains various sections of when the hostility towards hadn't even started. Periods of Nov 12- Nov 13 and Nov 13- Jun 14 to be specific. The point being that Reigns had been commanding global interest much above most of the contemporary wrestlers even before his push actually started in concrete tangible terms in Royal Rumble 15. I've further illustrated the point by adding in data from various other global parameters for completeness. All the data are completely in agreement without any discrepancies which paints a very clear picture with regards to Reigns' worldwide popularity. As for the Retention rates, I'd definitely try to post the data concerning it as soon as I get it from any reputable sources.

Plus I'd be really interested to see where the data from the graphs is since everything stated is completely unsourced. That's not me calling him a liar either, just remember I am a scientist and in my view data that is not sourced it pretty useless in making an argument.

The data isn't from any article. I myself have compiled all the data using Google Trends, Youtube and Facebook which can be easily verified by anybody.

So is his popularity grossly understated? I'd say no. But it's not just popularity that gets people to watch. Reigns has a combination of popularity and notoriety that together make Reigns definitely an interesting character in WWE.

Again, and this part is very important, I'm not really arguing here. I find the topic really interesting and I think seeing the data would make it more interesting. Given what I have been able to find out, I concede the possibility that the OP might be correct, but I just think the data is too anecdotal to draw that conclusion at this time.

I certainly agree that Reigns has a fair share of detractors, warranted or unwarranted is another topic of debate but the fact remains that he has them. I think the picture would be clearer when Reigns has had a decent run of 6-7 months with the title and with the forthcoming quarterly reports but a few trends in the spotlight are hard to ignore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Solidus1

Solid Snake

New Member
Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
51,392
Reaction score
19,899
Points
0
From what I know and seeing stuff online here and there, seems like Reigns is just another case of being a head of the times. People tend to not like change when it happens. I can bet anything this time next year people will be all over him. They were when he was in the Shield so it will happen again. I personally don't find him that entertaining (never did even when I was watching) but the way the fans seem to be reacting makes it funny. Also, holy stats Batman! The OP is HQ out the butt. lol