Does WWE have no concept of kayfabe 'credibility' ?

[Dolph'sZiggler]

Because it sure seems like they don't with the way they book everyone. Honestly how many credible competitors are there at this point? Of course you have the big 4 usual suspects: Cena, Sheamus, Orton, and now Punk, who are always protected. Big Show basically falls into this category as well, which is nothing short of pathetic. WWE makes sure that part timers like Brock, Rock, HHH, & Taker are always protected. Do they not realize that to make new stars you have to have up and comers go over these guys? The only way to become credible is to get the better of someone more credible than yourself.

This just bugs the shit out of me. They have guys that they clearly want to do things with, but they refuse to give them the booking to do it. They shove ADR down our throats while having him get dicked on by Sheamus for 6 months (his stale gimmick aside). They give DZ the MITB and proceed to job him out to Jericho and Orton at back to back PPVs. They think WB is going to get over by squashing jobbers and teaching an intro to business class in his promos. They give Miz a meaningless belt and proceed to have Ryback bury him. Speaking of Ryback, he is the one up and comer WWE seems to actually be interested in giving credibility to.

Another way to give credibility to future main eventers is to have an actual functioning mid card, which of course there is no semblance of in WWE. If you actually book mid card feuds and establish which mid carders are at the top of the heap you can establish them that way. Instead, WWE gives us pointless random matches with no mid card feuds, and then feeds any mid carder that gets a shred of momentum to a main eventer who doesn't need to be squashing mid carders at all. These matches are the absolute worst because you already know what will happen before the matches occur. Oh, Cody Rhodes vs Sheamus huh? Should be great :eww:

The way the pecking order is so predictable is a huge reason why I find WWE so stale at this point.

 

[CM Punk]

I think I mentioned this is the things I dislike about WWE.
But they have no faith because their audience is towards kids and just like any TV Show, the superheroes always win.

 

[Dat Kid1]

I think WWE is doing an okay job at starting to raise up some of the talent. You don't want to put people in the top spots too soon, it has to be subtle and slowly. They're starting to do it with promising talents like DB and DZ. I have to be honest and say the miz hasn't been all that. I think the an IC run is good for him, despite losing to Ryback. I'm willing to bet Kofi is also in line for a singles push because since losing the belts his team hasn't been prominent.

I'll predict that within the next year or so we'll have two new top guys.

 

[I'll See Ya Kia]

WWE seems more concerned with inserting Hunter into a place of responsibility and ensuring the WWE name remains clean, that the actual on air characters

 

[Snowman1]

As much as I love the OP as a wrestling fan, look at it from the business perspective (you know, the only thing Vince cares about)... this era is making more money than any other, merch sales and stuff like that are way up, so clearly this booking style is working.

It's just like the regular refs being replacable until there was a breaking point reached with the GB/Seattle game. It looks like we'll have to wait for the kids and women (not named Kia) to get tired of Cena and the superbooking.

But to your points, you're dead right from a fan perspective. They overpush the top guys until there's very few relevant superstars for them to face, and it's very frustrating. Look at Kofi Kingston's crowd pops dying down, because the fans have realized there's a glass ceiling for him. He'll be stuck in the midcard until he retires or joins the X Division (or that's what WWE has conditioned us to believe), and it's a real shame, and him being buried by the tag belts twice hasn't helped. Speaking of the tag belts, it seems like Vince sees the IC/US/MITB as free job fodder. It seems like he sees those belts as something to keep wrestlers credible as they go out and job... "Holy cow! Ryback just beat a former WWE champ and current IC champ in 3 minutes!", but as you said, Miz couldn't look much worse right now anyway.

Speaking of Miz, he was pushed well. He went from bottom to top, they took their time, and they made what looked like a big star in the guy. Besides him, Look at the rest of the main eventers... Cena went right after Kurt Angle. Sheamus was rushed out of ECW right into the WWE Title Scene. Orton was put in Evolution, and Ryback's being rushed up there too. Punk basically forced WWE to push him, and Henry was created when Vince stopped running Smackdown. From the very beginning, these guys were thrown right at the top, while the guys coming out of FCW/NXT today are stuck on Superstars. Why should we believe that would change while Vince is around?

Speaking of Vince, is it a coincidence that the most enjoyable products lately have been Triple H's NXT or Koskey's Smackdown? Guess us smarks will have to wait until he retires.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

I think WWE is doing an okay job at starting to raise up some of the talent. You don't want to put people in the top spots too soon, it has to be subtle and slowly. They're starting to do it with promising talents like DB and DZ. I have to be honest and say the miz hasn't been all that. I think the an IC run is good for him, despite losing to Ryback. I'm willing to bet Kofi is also in line for a singles push because since losing the belts his team hasn't been prominent.

I'll predict that within the next year or so we'll have two new top guys.

With this gullible line of thinking you should hang out with Crayo. You guys could talk about how awesome WWE is together.

WWE is shitting the bed with Ziggler, not prepping him to be a future main eventer.

 

[Rysenberg]

What gets me most is the ridiculously short match times between guys. It helps absolutely nobody. Rain mentioned Ryback's match with Miz on Raw last night - who does that benefit exactly? Ryback beats Miz who most will just dismiss as some pointless, irrelevant jobber (Kayfabe wise). However, make it a back and forth 15 minute long PPV match between the two and build up the whole 'Ryback just pulled off a massive result against a Wrestlemania main eventer' thing and he'll come out of it looking stronger as well as Miz - and more importantly, the IC belt - will come out of it looking solid as well. The Ryder/Sandow fued is another prime example of this.

If you don't give the guys and opportunity to show what they can do in the ring then nobody has a reason to care about them. Why should the average fan care about Dolph Ziggler? He just appears for 5 minutes, gets buried or is involved in a meaningless tag match, then pisses off to the back. Why should the average fan care about Wade Barrett? He just appears, destroys a jobber, then pisses off to the back. Why should the average fan care about Antonio Cesaro, Alex Riley, Christian etc etc..

The overpushing of the big 4 is understandable in some respects, but the way they just ignore the midcard division is absolutely criminal and is potentially dangerous if a couple of the big 4 were to get injured for a few months.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

What gets me most is the ridiculously short match times between guys. It helps absolutely nobody. Rain mentioned Ryback's match with Miz on Raw last night - who does that benefit exactly? Ryback beats Miz who most will just dismiss as some pointless, irrelevant jobber (Kayfabe wise). However, make it a back and forth 15 minute long PPV match between the two and build up the whole 'Ryback just pulled off a massive result against a Wrestlemania main eventer' thing and he'll come out of it looking stronger as well as Miz - and more importantly, the IC belt - will come out of it looking solid as well. The Ryder/Sandow fued is another prime example of this.

If you don't give the guys and opportunity to show what they can do in the ring then nobody has a reason to care about them. Why should the average fan care about Dolph Ziggler? He just appears for 5 minutes, gets buried or is involved in a meaningless tag match, then pisses off to the back. Why should the average fan care about Wade Barrett? He just appears, destroys a jobber, then pisses off to the back. Why should the average fan care about Antonio Cesaro, Alex Riley, Christian etc etc..

The overpushing of the big 4 is understandable in some respects, but the way they just ignore the midcard division is absolutely criminal and is potentially dangerous if a couple of the big 4 were to get injured for a few months.

Great post Bro Dimmagio

 

[Crayo]

The main issue I share with you, I despise that the top guys refuse to job. I understand Cena and Orton not jobbing, they're still the top guys, the same level (WWE level anyway) of the Rock and Austin's. But I don't understand why Rock returns and beats Cena, but Lesnar returns to lose to Cena and then beat HHH. I'm just confused as to why they wouldn't have Rock feud with a up-and-comer and put him over as the next guy, or have Brock/Heyman -- who can get heat out of anything at the moment -- with an up-and-coming face so we have more than Cena/Orton to feed heels too. They are so focused on providing dream matches for Wrestlemania and Summerslam that they're forgetting to actually create the future. I understand the dream match incentive, we've always been given those in WWE and they make epic occasions, but those can only continue if you build more stars. Other than Cena/Anyone or Punk/Austin, what possible big DREAM matches are there now if you don't include a Rock or a Brock?

If I were asked what feuds -- that don't involve retired superstars -- could be classified as a dream feud, I'd have to answer with face Cena vs heel/tweener (clever) Punk, and we've had that two years in a row. There is literally nothing else. Actually thinking about it you could say Cena/Undertaker at Wrestlemania or something to do with his streak but otherwise you're fucked. Create the future WWE, else you'll dip into the 1.0 ratings. Oh and let me tell you, Sheamus is not it so fuck off Vince/Paul.

 

[Dat Kid1]

With this gullible line of thinking you should hang out with Crayo. You guys could talk about how awesome WWE is together.

WWE is shitting the bed with Ziggler, not prepping him to be a future main eventer.

U wanna make a bet

 

[Dat Kid1]

The main issue I share with you, I despise that the top guys refuse to job. I understand Cena and Orton not jobbing, they're still the top guys, the same level (WWE level anyway) of the Rock and Austin's. But I don't understand why Rock returns and beats Cena, but Lesnar returns to lose to Cena and then beat HHH. I'm just confused as to why they wouldn't have Rock feud with a up-and-comer and put him over as the next guy, or have Brock/Heyman -- who can get heat out of anything at the moment -- with an up-and-coming face so we have more than Cena/Orton to feed heels too. They are so focused on providing dream matches for Wrestlemania and Summerslam that they're forgetting to actually create the future. I understand the dream match incentive, we've always been given those in WWE and they make epic occasions, but those can only continue if you build more stars. Other than Cena/Anyone or Punk/Austin, what possible big DREAM matches are there now if you don't include a Rock or a Brock?

If I were asked what feuds -- that don't involve retired superstars -- could be classified as a dream feud, I'd have to answer with face Cena vs heel/tweener (clever) Punk, and we've had that two years in a row. There is literally nothing else. Actually thinking about it you could say Cena/Undertaker at Wrestlemania or something to do with his streak but otherwise you're fucked. Create the future WWE, else you'll dip into the 1.0 ratings. Oh and let me tell you, Sheamus is not it so fuck off Vince/Paul.

The only reason Rock didn't lose is because they knew he'd be coming for another year. I'm sure that they had made the decision for Cena to lose a week before the show. On a personal note I'm glad that decision was made because that crowd was crazy. I had never seen a crowd that hyped in person. I still have the smell of beer in my hair from all the flinging of collectors cups.

You have good ideas but there is flaw in you logic. You can have guys like Ziggler and Bryan go against Rock or Lesnar, but the majority of the fans won't buy into it. In order for that to happen it has to be planned at least a year in advance to give WWE to build those guys up to have a match that draws. Based on Kayfabe DB and DZ don't have the star power to make it seem like they would have the ability to beat those guys. I think WWE is getting ready to put someone over with the new negotiations with Lesnar. They'll have plenty of time between now and WM 30 to build someone new to have that match with him (we can only pray it's not the ginger without a soul)

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

U wanna make a bet

Do I want to bet that DZ will never become the full time, long term, sustained main eventer that he should be?

Sure, make the terms.

 

[Dat Kid1]

Do I want to bet that DZ will never become the full time, long term, sustained main eventer that he should be?

Sure, make the terms.

If I win you have to permanently change your favorite superstar to John Cena. Name your terms

 

[Crayo]

The only reason Rock didn't lose is because they knew he'd be coming for another year. I'm sure that they had made the decision for Cena to lose a week before the show. On a personal note I'm glad that decision was made because that crowd was crazy. I had never seen a crowd that hyped in person. I still have the smell of beer in my hair from all the flinging of collectors cups.

You have good ideas but there is flaw in you logic. You can have guys like Ziggler and Bryan go against Rock or Lesnar, but the majority of the fans won't buy into it. In order for that to happen it has to be planned at least a year in advance to give WWE to build those guys up to have a match that draws. Based on Kayfabe DB and DZ don't have the star power to make it seem like they would have the ability to beat those guys. I think WWE is getting ready to put someone over with the new negotiations with Lesnar. They'll have plenty of time between now and WM 30 to build someone new to have that match with him (we can only pray it's not the ginger without a soul)

Still made no sense to have that booking. This thread is about kayfabe credibility yeah? Well Rock going over the biggest and "strongest" WWE Superstar in this era after not competing for 8 years and winning cleanly clearly projects a Atttiude Era > Current Era vibe to the casuals right?

Also I completely agree, it wasn't a flaw in my logic it was just something that obviously has to happen. Unique storylines and a strong midcard opens up every opportunity for these massive guys to go up against the most talented of the midcard and lose turning him into a main eventer, it's how it works. Otherwise guys like Dolph have no one to beat to become a main eventer.

 

[Leo C]

Of course no one would look credible while wrestling Rock or Brock. Dolph Ziggler, for example, is Mr. MITB but keeps losing and jobbing. Then they're going to give him the title and he'll probably flop because I believe the booking will be horrible. You have to build the guys, and not kill their momentum by feeding them to Cena or Sheamus. And guys like Rock/Brock/HHH/Taker are the ones who should job to an Upper Midcarder/Occasional Main Eventer to make him a fix Main Eventer like Cena. Punk's close to that spot (but he hints early retirement so we don't know how long he'll be around, anyway), but the other guy who's up there is Sheamus. No one else is around that level at the moment, maybe Orton. And those are the big 4, right? I think I'm rambling at this point but the thing is, if they don't build more than one future star correctly, they're going to lack star power in the future even worse than they are atm and it's going to cost them.