Daniel Bryan & Summerslam Buy Rate

[the_hoff]

Backing my WM comment lets see a buyrate with no Taker. Will be interesting.

Don't think Taker will be around for this year's WM? Well shit, that, that would be like any forums without the_hoff around! Tragedy!

 

[DR.gif]

 

[Cloud]

Don't think Taker will be around for this year's WM? Well shit, that, that would be like any forums without the_hoff around! Tragedy!

He'll be there this year but WM buyrates without the streak will plummet.

 

[leojay]

In all fairness one buyrate isn't really much to go on, but still, guys the size of Bryan are never gonna be the biggest draws of the company and that's just the reality of it.

But they didn't mean size, they meant star power which Daniel Bryan doesn't have much of currently considering his momentum only started catching up a PPV or two before he got his big PPV match.

But I'd love for anyone to tell me why size factors into anything. Considering when I try to get my friends to watch and they absolutely hate guys like Ryback and Big E because they find their size awkward and love guys like CM Punk and Daniel Bryan because they can relate to them a lot more, I find it extremely hard to believe.

 

[Snowman1]

Lets see just how much "big guys" draw at Survivor Series.

 

[Lockard 23]

But they didn't mean size, they meant star power which Daniel Bryan doesn't have much of currently considering his momentum only started catching up a PPV or two before he got his big PPV match.

But I'd love for anyone to tell me why size factors into anything. Considering when I'm try to get my friends to watch and they absolutely hate guys like Ryback and Big E because they find their size awkward and love guys like CM Punk and Daniel Bryan because they can relate to them a lot more, I find it extremely hard to believe.

Bryan's smaller size was a major issue in a lot of people's minds as it relates to whether WWE would ever pull the trigger on a main event push of him or not. WWE has always put a lot of emphasis on size and look, it's not exactly a new trend or something.

Size shouldn't really factor much into it, but it does for the casual audience to a large extent. Being of a bigger size just evokes more of a presence and marketable look. Sure, we can all find guys that were bigger who didn't draw well, or who didn't draw as well as guys smaller than them. Lex Luger was a flop. Diesel in 1995 is the worst drawing world champion of all time. The list goes on. But it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of wrestling's biggest stars have always been "Big Guys" (i.e. guys at least six feet and around or over 250+ pounds or more, with most of that extra weight usually being from muscle) - Bruno Sammartino, Andre The Giant, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Ultimate Warrior, Steve Austin, The Rock, Undertaker, Bill Goldberg, HHH, John Cena, Batista, etc.

I personally believe times are changing but at the same time, no matter how much the wrestling business evolves and goes through a metamorphosis, there are some fundamentals that never change and this could indeed be one of them. Just look at how people here (and on other forums) love Mark Henry and even nickname him Mark "Ratings" Henry (and for good reason.) Is he not a big guy? Samoa Joe is said to be one of the biggest draws that TNA has ever had, is he not a big guy?

 

[leojay]

Size shouldn't really factor much into it, but it does for the casual audience to a large extent. Being of a bigger size just evokes more of a presence and marketable look.

But isn't one of if not the biggest turn off point from the casual audience the "big sweaty men grappling each other" stereotype? That's at least what I get greeted by when I tell people I watch wrestling.

You don't have to have a big size, you have to have a big persona. It just so happens most of the megastars over the years have been huge aswell as insanely charismatic and larger than life.

Mark Henry has to be the worst example. For years he was doing absolutely nothing. Just recently he became a world champion with thousands of fans. He's always been a large guy. So what changed? He developed a good character that people enjoyed.

 

[Lockard 23]

But isn't one of if not the biggest turn off point from the casual audience the "big sweaty men grappling each other" stereotype? That's at least what I get greeted by when I tell people I watch wrestling.

You don't have to have a big size, you have to have a big persona. It just so happens most of the megastars over the years have been huge aswell as insanely charismatic and larger than life.

Mark Henry has to be the worst example. For years he was doing absolutely nothing. Just recently he became a world champion with thousands of fans. He's always been a large guy. So what changed? He developed a good character that people enjoyed.

True, charisma and personality is one of the main facets you need in order to get over and become successful. But that doesn't discount that size is a factor, just that it isn't everything. But look at the personas of all the guys that I mentioned... would the vast majority of those characters (or any of them) work as well with a guy the size of Bryan? The same goes for Mark Henry. His size gives the "Hall of Pain" gimmick a lot of credibility in ways that a smaller guy wouldn't be able to.

Also, for the sake of argument, how does Bryan really have a big persona anyway? I find nothing "larger than life" about him. He loves to wrestle and wants to be the best wrestler in the world, he has the underdog aspect about him that people can get behind, and he goes around chanting YES. There is nothing larger than life about that to me, it's actually a pretty normal and ordinary character for someone to have, there's nothing particularly special or stand out about it. It's easy to picture a whole lot of different people doing the same thing. Larger than life is being one of a kind, it's when you're someone who people live vicariously through because you seem to have an extraordinary persona and unlike most of the world's population. Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior looking like comic book heroes come to life, The Rock carrying himself like a movie star (with his silk shirts and high-priced vehicles, etc.), etc. I don't find that Bryan really has that. I doubt there's an enormous amount of people who fantasize about being Daniel Bryan from a character point of view.

 

[leojay]

True, charisma and personality is one of the main facets you need in order to get over and become successful. But that doesn't discount that size is a factor, just that it isn't everything. But look at the personas of all the guys that I mentioned... would the vast majority of those characters (or any of them) work as well with a guy the size of Bryan? The same goes for Mark Henry. His size gives the "Hall of Pain" gimmick a lot of credibility in ways that a smaller guy wouldn't be able to.

Also, for the sake of argument, how does Bryan really have a big persona anyway? I find nothing "larger than life" about him. He loves to wrestle and wants to be the best wrestler in the world, he has the underdog aspect about him that people can get behind, and he goes around chanting YES. There is nothing larger than life about that to me, it's actually a pretty normal and ordinary character for someone to have, there's nothing particularly special or stand out about it. It's easy to picture a whole lot of different people doing the same thing. Larger than life is being one of a kind, it's when you're someone who people live vicariously through because you seem to have an extraordinary persona and unlike most of the world's population. Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior looking like comic book heroes come to life, The Rock carrying himself like a movie star (with his silk shirts and high-priced vehicles, etc.), etc. I don't find that Bryan really has that. I doubt there's an enormous amount of people who fantasize about being Daniel Bryan from a character point of view.

I'm not particularly arguing for Daniel Bryan, rather the stigma that wrestlers with big builds are what makes draws. It's extremely old fashioned, especially considering the fact that these days it is also a huge stereotypical wrestling turn-off. Not only that, but I definitely don't remember The Rock, Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold or The Undertaker for their big muscles. Without their personality and charisma, how far would've they gotten with their well built bodies? Without their well built bodies, how far would've they gotten with their personality and charisma? It obviously helps to have the big builds, but it definitely isn't a big facet. It obviously wasn't needed for guys like HBK, Eddie Guerrero and Ric Flair.

But yes, I do find Daniel Bryan to have a larger than life character. He's small, he's nerdy, he looks like a lumberjack,, he looks like he'd get pounded on in the real world; he's the exact opposite of what a wrestler is thought of. However, inside the ring he's a complete maniac who has massive fits and goes on rampages that allows him to destroy wrestlers twice his size. That in my opinion is the epitome of a larger than life character.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

Vince needs to realise Daniel isnt to blame its the shitty product and the fact that fans watch PPV's by streams now as the PPV isnt worth all that money to pay for

Streams were around a year ago so you can still easily compare last year's buy rates to this year's buy rates apples to apples.

 

[Lockard 23]

I'm not particularly arguing for Daniel Bryan, rather the stigma that wrestlers with big builds are what makes draws. It's extremely old fashioned, especially considering the fact that these days it is also a huge stereotypical wrestling turn-off. Not only that, but I definitely don't remember The Rock, Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold or The Undertaker for their big muscles. Without their personality and charisma, how far would've they gotten with their well built bodies? Without their well built bodies, how far would've they gotten with their personality and charisma? It obviously helps to have the big builds, but it definitely isn't a big facet. It obviously wasn't needed for guys like HBK, Eddie Guerrero and Ric Flair.

But yes, I do find Daniel Bryan to have a larger than life character. He's small, he's nerdy, he looks like a lumberjack,, he looks like he'd get pounded on in the real world; he's the exact opposite of what a wrestler is thought of. However, inside the ring he's a complete maniac who has massive fits and goes on rampages that allows him to destroy wrestlers twice his size. That in my opinion is the epitome of a larger than life character.

I can assure you that if guys like Hogan/Austin/Rock/Undertaker had been the same size as Bryan, you would have noticed and no way does their gimmick work anywhere near as well. Hogan, for example, was someone who was seemingly immortal and being a big guy definitely played into the "larger than life" aspect of that. In terms of physique, he looked like a god and his size definitely played a part in his various feuds, most notably his feud with Andre (with whom he set both the attendance record in North American wrestling as well as the largest WWF television rating ever.) Having a larger than life look (which doesn't necessitate being a huge bodybuilder, but still of some kind of stand-out size as far as height/weight goes) just jives perfectly with having a larger than life personality, which I don't find Bryan to have (we'll just have to agree to disagree there.)

For the record, guys like Michaels and Guerrero were never good draws. They were still very popular and had lots of fans, but since this mini-debate started over comments I made in regards to smaller guys never being the top draws of the industry, it's worth pointing out. Flair was a big territorial draw, but never on the same level of a Hogan or an Austin in any way. Small(er) guys can become popular and technically be "draws" but don't bet on them ever becoming the long-term face of the company.

 

[Snowman1]

take it for what it's worth, but still

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

take it for what it's worth, but still

what the fuck