Connecticut School Shooting

[John McHenry]

Actually I'm not arguing for or against gun control. I'm arguing that no matter what a psychopath will find a way to hurt people. That gun control isn't psychopath control because it'll happen no matter what.

But to counter point what you've said this guy did only happen to injury them this time. He got a blade onto 22 kids. If he can get a blade on 22 kids he could have killed them puncture the spine eyesocket or throat and they'd most likely have died. Just because they didn't die doesn't mean they couldn't have.

As I said above if you really want to hurt people you'll find a way to do so.

Also Brits love to tout how their gun control numbers are soo much better. But you also have to remember your population is 62,641,000 and ours is five times that at 311,591,917 so our number will always be higher. Now I haven't actually looked at gun control numbers to see what kind of statistical difference that makes. Because it doesn't cause again if you want to hurt people you'll find a way.

 

[We Are Legion]

Even if it were POSSIBLE to make it harder to own a gun, if a criminal has to go through a lot of effort to obtain a gun, I can damn sure guarantee he's gonna use it. Criminals don't typically obtain them legally anyways because their serial numbers are registered to that gun owner. Not sure if you can even follow this, but basically that means if the bullet was ever matched to their gun or if the weapon was found, the criminal would be found too. It's also easy for law enforcement to determine the type of weapons used by the markings on the bullets and they cross reference them with a database of registered gun owners of that model in that area. But again, people obtaining guns legally aren't the ones causing these tragedies.

And actually yes, the comparison to drug laws is very valid. It's an illegal item acquired through illegal means. Period. And laws don't even put a dent in their traffic. You also don't seem to understand how the current Connecticut gun laws did nothing to prevent this tragedy, which is arguably the most significant detail.

 

[Ozymandias]

Ok... I agree with you completely. Gun control IS NOT psychopath control, I agree 100%, and it will unfortunately happen no matter what. Yes I agree completely again.

But surely you must understand that it becomes so much easier for them to inflict the maximum amount of damage, kill the most amount of people, if they have a gun as opposed to a knife. Yes he could have killed them with a knife, but it is so much harder to kill with a knife than with a gun. For one thing range is a major issue, you need to be right up close, no shooting people as they run if you have a knife. You also only have the 'hack and slash' approach which isn't ever going to be precise. With a gun, depending what type it is, you're able to fire multiple shots in a matter of seconds, greatly increasing your chance of a fatality.

So yes, people will find a way to hurt other people, but I'll say it again one last time; lets make it as hard as possible for them to do it. Take away their guns, minimize the damage they can do.

 

[John McHenry]

Honestly I'd rather we go back to the days of the wild west. Looser gun controls harsher penalties and faster turn around on death penalty along with public execution. I think also more crimes (child malestation for starters) deserve the death penalty. But that's me and I know few people will agree with that.

 

[Ozymandias]

Even if it were POSSIBLE to make it harder to own a gun, if a criminal has to go through a lot of effort to obtain a gun, I can damn sure guarantee he's gonna use it. Criminals don't typically obtain them legally anyways because their serial numbers are registered to that gun owner. Not sure if you can even follow this, but basically that means if the bullet was ever matched to their gun or if the weapon was found, the criminal would be found too. It's also easy for law enforcement to determine the type of weapons used by the markings on the bullets and they cross reference them with a database of registered gun owners of that model in that area. But again, people obtaining guns legally aren't the ones causing these tragedies.

And actually yes, the comparison to drug laws is very valid. It's an illegal item acquired through illegal means. Period. And laws don't even put a dent in their traffic. You also don't seem to understand how the current Connecticut gun laws did nothing to prevent this tragedy, which is arguably the most significant detail.

Excellent condescending post. Well done. You must be really proud of yourself

But I'll go through it anyway;

I do understand the gun laws just fine thank you. The perp of this crime was not legally allowed to own a gun. However, my point is that due to the sheer abundance of firearms in circulation in the US it was far easier for this person to obtain a gun that it would have been here in Europe. Now, that doesn't mean that if you do away with the 2nd Amendment tomorrow it wouldn't happen again. You're attempting to simply a complex situation to suit your argument. The guns in circulation would remain a problem and it may take, 5, 10, maybe 15 years before they're removed from American society. But that's a project worth embarking on.

The drug analogy is ridiculous and crude. Drugs have been used by humans for millennia. There are cave paintings showing evidence of cultures chewing and cooking leaves to bring on hallucinogenic effects, they were used by the ancient Greeks and Romans, they're as ubiquitous throughout human history as language or song. The remain a hugely important social cohesion, despite the laws against them. They drive various countries economies, vary wildly in origin strength and effect. They are intrinsic to all societies all over the world for different reasons. THAT is why they are so sought after despite their illegality. That is what makes them different from guns which are only used for attack or defence and share none of the cultural or social attachments of drugs. Just throwing them together cause they're both illegal is just really lazy.

 

[We Are Legion]

Excellent condescending post. Well done. You must be really proud of yourself

But I'll go through it anyway;

I do understand the gun laws just fine thank you. The perp of this crime was not legally allowed to own a gun. However, my point is that due to the sheer abundance of firearms in circulation in the US it was far easier for this person to obtain a gun that it would have been here in Europe. Now, that doesn't mean that if you do away with the 2nd Amendment tomorrow it wouldn't happen again. You're attempting to simply a complex situation to suit your argument. The guns in circulation would remain a problem and it may take, 5, 10, maybe 15 years before they're removed from American society. But that's a project worth embarking on.

The drug analogy is ridiculous and crude. Drugs have been used by humans for millennia. There are cave paintings showing evidence of cultures chewing and cooking leaves to bring on hallucinogenic effects, they were used by the ancient Greeks and Romans, they're as ubiquitous throughout human history as language or song. The remain a hugely important social cohesion, despite the laws against them. They drive various countries economies, vary wildly in origin strength and effect. They are intrinsic to all societies all over the world for different reasons. THAT is why they are so sought after despite their illegality. That is what makes them different from guns which are only used for attack or defence and share none of the cultural or social attachments of drugs. Just throwing them together cause they're both illegal is just really lazy.

I wouldn't be condescending if you were actually knowledgeable of the topic you're arguing with me on.

So answer me this... how is it that 1 out of every 2 people in Switzerland own guns (highest ratio in the world) and the country still has the lowest homicide rate in the world? Even Canada has a higher gunserson ratio than the US yet homicide is almost non-existent here. Your whole theory of "more guns=more gun crime" is naive and flat out WRONG. The murder rate will only decrease when the US culture changes, not the laws. You British people just love comparing yourselves to us when you want to pretend to understand us, yet so quick to differentiate when you don't approve of something in our country. You call me condescending... when was the last time you even visited the US?

And yes, in the sense I was comparing them, the ineffectiveness of drug laws is an identical comparison to gun laws. You bring up cavemen and ancient civilizations to explain their religious and historical justifications for remaining within society... I mean... OK? Way to completely miss the point. I compared drug LAWS to gun LAWS. Not DRUGS to GUNS. I mean seriously, did you even read what I typed or did you just make up something in your imagination and assume I meant that instead? Perhaps you just thought it was an easier topic to argue with me on? Because those two topics of comparison aren't even remotely similar. Laws against heroin, crack, meth, LSD, and other engineered narcotics and hallucinagens don't prevent anyone from acquiring them and using them. Mexico smuggles tons of drugs into the states, and they also have a lot of guns and a much higher homicide rate than us. Most assault rifles that are illegally owned by Americans are purchased through those same cartels that smuggle in drugs. Please... do some more research on this topic because you aren't ready to discuss it.

 

[Mick Donalds]

I feel absolutely awful for the parents of those murdered children. It takes a sick motherfucker to rampage in a school. Hope he rots in hell.

In regards to the 2nd Amendment: I'm going out shooting at a range tomorrow. I hope my exericse in my Constitutional right makes you Euros and Canadians angry. You have absolutely no legitimate say in our Consitutional affairs, and if you think your big brother the United abomiNations is going to force our country to hand over our guns and melt them down in public squares like you all did, it's not happening.

 

[Shawn Michaels]

Aside from a few rediculous posts made in this thread, people just like all over social media that I am seeing are taking away from what took place. The kids and teachers whose lives were taken should be remembered. This isn't a time to be bitching at each other, but to be sending prayers to those who lost loved ones. I have two little ones myself and it sickens me what happened today!! So let's tone it down a bit and remember the bigger picture here. This should be a respect/remembrance thread and nothing more!

 

[We Are Legion]

I see nothing wrong with discussing the exact same thing everyone else will be later today because of this.

 

[Shawn Michaels]

It's called respect. We should be embracing what happened and not bitch back and forth. What happened today in CT was a horrific tragedy and right now is not the time for this and it's just my two cents that this is just not the time.

 

[zigglerHEEL]

I created the thread as I felt it newsworthy and important. Likewise, I fully understood the direction it could take and have actually read through each and every post with zero bias as i don't really have a position on the matter of gun control...I would just like to hope that everyone shares in the grief of lives lost, especially those of the children...... There is always room for political debate as long as the point of the matter is not lost which is things like this HAVE TO STOP, and I honestly don't give a fuck how we go about stopping it

 

[We Are Legion]

The innocent lives lost today is unfortunate and devastating for anyone to hear of. But most people DO care how this problem gets fixed. That's the point of the discussion. If you just want to talk about how sad it makes you feel, that's not a very good discussion. We can't all just join hands and sing "Kumbaya" forever.

 

[PHX]

Easily one of the saddest things I've ever heard about to say the least. I think this pretty much will push the idea of doing away with normal school and will do more home schooling which is something I already thought would happen with the amount of student/teacher incidents. Can totally see 5 years from now kids at home on their cpu's listening to their teacher via video chat or some shit like that since this will only make parents that much more afraid to send their kids to school.

 

[Embrace Thou Maryse]

You know what else would save children from dying? How about stop bribing them with Happy Meal toys to get their parents to buy them McDonalds? Heart disease is the #1 killer in America, more than double the death toll of gun murder and alcohol combined. But since sick people with yellow skin dying slow painful deaths throughout hospitals across the country doesn't make for good television, people CHOOSE to pay attention to things like this more often. They CHOOSE to report on gun issues because they know our minds are engineered by the media and entertainment to pay more attention to things that go "BOOM!" rather than things that you're statistically more-likely to die from. I feel bad for the families in Connecticut, but I wish the bleeding hearts weren't so choosy of whom they evoke sympathy towards. And stricter gun laws will not reduce gun murder, it will just make people feel safer right before they get shot.

Your seriously considering heart disease and being shot dead by some random blueberry? Eating fast food is their choice so if you get a heart condition you brought it on yourself. Unless you consider those kids and teachers turning up to school them asking to be shot dead then they did nothing to bring this horrific crime against themselves. There is a humongous fucking difference between handing someone a cheeseburger and handing them a gun surely you can see that.

I wouldn't be condescending if you were actually knowledgeable of the topic you're arguing with me on.

So answer me this... how is it that 1 out of every 2 people in Switzerland own guns (highest ratio in the world) and the country still has the lowest homicide rate in the world? Even Canada has a higher gunserson ratio than the US yet homicide is almost non-existent here. Your whole theory of "more guns=more gun crime" is naive and flat out WRONG. The murder rate will only decrease when the US culture changes, not the laws. You British people just love comparing yourselves to us when you want to pretend to understand us, yet so quick to differentiate when you don't approve of something in our country. You call me condescending... when was the last time you even visited the US?

The difference between Canada/Switzerland and America is obviously that theres crazy blueberries in those countries, Theres countries with bigger populations than America, countries with more guns and crime than America but yet America see's so many more mall/school shootings. Whether is the whole 'right to bare arms' balony or whatever else Americans as a whole just cant handle guns.

Argument fail by above article about Chinese kids.

Did anyone die in that rampage though? Because 26 people died today and people are just holding their guns closer and bitching about drugs while 26 families are in mourning.

Yeah the same journalists were pulling those traumatized kids in front of the cameras while they were still in tears. It was disgusting. I question the "mental damage" of the media every bit as much as the gunman tbh.

The shooter was also 20 years old. In the state of Connecticut, it is illegal under any circumstance for anyone under the age of 21 to possess a firearm. So even though the state already has a certain degree of gun control, it didn't help at all. More gun control will only affect those who follow the law, and responsible gun owners are not the ones causing these tragedies.

Responsible gun owners are the ones who initially buy the guns that wind up in criminals hands. Criminals dont make guns they get guns that were once bought by so called "responsible gun owners".

 

[Defiant]

The discussion here reminds me of a UK news story I once read where a teenage girl had gasoline splashed in her face and then a lit match flicked at her by a 19 year old girl who believed she was sleeping with her boyfriend.

Because I'd have rather taken a bullet.