The Middle East crisis

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thoughts?

  • fuck Israel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • fuck Palestine

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • fuck both of em'

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I seriously don't give a fuck whatever happens down there

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .

C4

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You know what's happening here in the Middle East, if you don't, then you're probably living in a cave or something. :noexpression:

Moderates in Middle East May Suffer if Israeli-Hamas Conflict Continues Unabated


Smoke rises following an Israeli missile strike in northern Gaza, 30 Dec 2008
Smoke rises following an Israeli missile strike in northern Gaza, 30 Dec 2008
Israeli warplanes continue to hit suspected Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip. At the same time, Palestinian militants are keeping up their rocket and mortar attacks on Israeli border communities.

The violence erupted after a six-month Hamas-Israeli ceasefire expired on December 19. The Palestinian militant group stepped up its shelling of Israeli communities, prompting the massive Israeli response.

Many analysts say this is the biggest military offensive against Gaza since Israel occupied the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the 1967 Six-Day War. Israel's Defense Minister, Ehud Barak, said the country is currently engaged in an all-out conflict against Hamas.

David Aaron, Director of the RAND Center for Middle East Public Policy, said that rhetoric is all too familiar.

"They [the Israelis] made a basic strategic decision to sort of end it once and for all. Well, unfortunately, we've heard that story before in their invasion of Lebanon [in 2006], which did not eradicate Hezbollah. But it has stopped Hezbollah from carrying out attacks against northern Israel," he said.

The militant group Hamas has been in control of the Gaza Strip since June 2007, after it defeated forces loyal to the moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. The United States considers Hamas to be a terrorist group and has accused it of starting this latest round of violence.

Fawaz Gerges is a Middle East expert at Sarah Lawrence College in New York. Speaking from Tripoli, Lebanon, he said the strong Israeli response has radicalized Arab public opinion in the region.

Jordanian demonstrators hold a Palestinian flag during a protest near the Israeli embassy in Amman, 30 Dec 2008
Jordanian demonstrators hold a Palestinian flag during a protest near the Israeli embassy in Amman, 30 Dec 2008
"And it seems to me that the longer the crisis continues, the more radicalized Arab public opinion will likely become. There is no military solution for an essentially political crisis. Regardless of what one thinks of Hamas, the way that Israel has acted in the last few days is playing into Hamas' hands. The military escalation and the extent and the horrendous casualties on the Palestinian side are playing directly into Hamas' hands. They are weakening the moderate forces in the Arab world, particularly America's allies - Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia - and basically supplying ammunition to the so-called resistance front, particularly Iran and Syria and Hamas in Palestine and Hezbollah in Lebanon," argued Gerges.

David Aaron from RAND agreed, saying the crisis puts U.S. allies in the region in a difficult situation.

"It puts them more on the spot because we have given them no coverage. If we had decided to simply call for a ceasefire and stoppage of violence and all the rest, that would have given them some cover. But we didn't. We said, 'This is the fault of Hamas.' Even if that's true, it certainly is not perceived that way in those countries. And so their governments are going to be the target of increased criticism on the part of their people for collaborating with us," he said.

Aaron also said the United States and its allies should be concerned about what may happen on the West Bank. Will there be another intifada, an armed Palestinian uprising against Israeli rule?

Many experts, including Aaron, said the latest conflict was in part due to the Bush administration's Middle East policy.

Israel's PM Ehud Olmert (l) and Palestinian President Mahmud Abbas before a meeting in Jerusalem, 05 May 2008
Israel's PM Ehud Olmert (l) and Palestinian President Mahmud Abbas in Jerusalem, (file photo)
"I think it was a complete failure. It didn't do anything, frankly. We did finally get some conversation between [Mahmoud] Abbas and [Israeli Prime Minister Ehud] Olmert. But then nobody knows where that was going and we see this conflict arising now. And it's hard for me to believe that that's going to strengthen the hand of those who want a dialogue with the Palestinians," he said.

The Bush administration says it has been consistently engaged in trying to find a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli crisis.

Fawaz Gerges said one way to come closer to a political solution is to include Hamas in the process. But that, he said, will come about only if there is a different mindset.

"A mindset that says Hamas is not a monolith, that yes, Hamas engages in terrorism, Hamas carries out certain terrorist actions, but Hamas is not just a huge monolith. There are multiple points of view and narratives within Hamas. And political engagement, I would argue, will likely strengthen the moderate elements not only within the region, but also within the Palestinian territories. In fact, I would argue, that a year from now, Hamas will likely remain as strong if not stronger - particularly if Israel and the United States insist on exclusion and on basically pursuing the military option, which basically will not really produce a breakthrough for this essentially political crisis in the region," he said.

Fawaz Gerges and David Aaron said a lot may change between now and January 20 when Barack Obama is officially sworn in as the new U.S. President. But they said one thing is clear - the current conflict proves that finding a political solution to the Middle East crisis should be the first item on President Obama's foreign policy agenda.


In my opinion there is just one solution to this 'crisis', drop two atomic bombs, one on Israel and the other one on Palestine.

:technology_tank:

thoughts?
 

Evil Austin

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? :crazy:

"Don't worry guys I am o....k..."

Edit but on a serious note -- I never quite understood what you guys actually wanted from us? there are hundreds of Arabs living in Israel that have got Israeli passports and are citizens and are nice people?

And you know I may have missed something on the news though can someone who lives in the middle east and I know besides C4 there are a few of you, can reply and fill me in on who is 'Gilliad Shalit' ? That guy you apparently kidnapped a few years ago and are hiding under a cave somewhere? :confused:.

In my opinion there is just one solution to this 'crisis',

And what I don't quite get is why are you guys trying to solve and end something you started? you started it we retaliated and now it is going back and forth for about two weeks now. So you are trying to solve the crisis you guys started? yes makes perfect sense, why start the crisis in the first place?

And just for the record Ehud Olmert is an idiot, he is no longer the priminister and everyone got him kicked out. He was just a thickheaded idiot, he does not represent us. >_<
 
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These two groups of people won't stop fighting until one goes extinct, or one moves out of the area. Our priority in the west shouldn't be supplying either side with arms, food or money, but freeing ourselves from reliance on any natural resources that lay within the area (Oil).

It's similar to certain parts of Africa. It's tribal based bullshit that goes back hundreds, even thousands of years. Why should we give a rat's ass? Yes, it's terrible that innocent lives are cost, but nobody "held Europe's hand" as nations wiped each other out for hundreds of years at a time.

It's best to let these groups decide when they want to progress and move on.
 

MikeRaw

Guest
I vote fuck both of em.
Anyone who takes a side here is as bad as the side they are going against.
They're both making the world a worse place, but unfortunately, it won't ever really end.
I can't stick up for Israel, because what they don't want done to them, they do to others anyways, along with being a Bish cronie country.
But I can't stick up for Palestine, or Hamas, because they're terrorists (Hamas that is) plain and simple.
Fuck em both.
 

monkeystyle

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Fuck Israel.

What 5 Israelis dead? I'm surprised they're not yelling holocaust yet.
 

monkeystyle

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Not to mention fuck the UN too.

Gotta love how those assholes count casualties. 507 Palestinians dead thus far and the UN is reporting 100 of them as being civilians.

What the UN doesn't tell you is they only consider women and children as civilians.

Douchebags.
 

monkeystyle

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"Don't worry guys I am o....k..."

I'm sure you'll be just fine. They fired 30 rockets into your country on Sunday and wounded one person.

you started it we retaliated and now it is going back and forth for about two weeks now.

Ahh I see, so random asshole kills two, and your country decides that an appropriate response is to kill 250 with airstrikes and bomb a fucking university?

Yeah that's not retaliation. It's bullshit.
 

J

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Ahh I see, so random asshole kills two, and your country decides that an appropriate response is to kill 250 with airstrikes and bomb a fucking university?

Yeah that's not retaliation. It's bullshit.

I agree it is truly a bitch move on there part.
 

monkeystyle

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And the problem is no one will do anything about it so long as the good old US of A supports Israel 100% without question.

Honestly, to all of you Americans out there, this is as much your governments fault as it is Israels.
 

MikeRaw

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^MS speaks the truth on how wrong Israel is. I agree with you there MS, however, you can't ignore the fact that Hamas, no matter what the situation is, will always hate anything to do with the western world, and are a bunch of terrorists, and are no better than Israel and the US.
They are using the same kind of tactics, just in a different way. So I dont see how you can side with them either. Both Israel and Hamas/Palestine are awful.
 

monkeystyle

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I'm not supporting Hamas. I'm supporting the people of Palestine.

And like it or not Hamas are legally and democratically elected officials withing Palestine. Our own government Mike, confirmed that the election was done by international standards.

And now instead of attacking governmental and military installations Israel is bombing mosques, apartment buildings and universities because there might be one or two Hamas militants housed there.

When the US bombed Iraq and killed umpteen civilians there was outrage. Where is it here? It's the exact same situation, but because it's Palestine, it's okay somehow.
 

MikeRaw

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^I get what you mean, and it is almost sick how it isn't viewed as bad as it should be (what Israel is doing).
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that it's insanity that they are bombing all over the place as a result of a few guys, my only point is that if I was someone living in Palestine, I would be equally outraged at Hamas, as I am at Israel.
To say one of them started it would be stupid. Sure, one side may have kicked off this "chapter", but this has been going on for years, so instead of pointing the blame at one, I view them as both as forms of terrorists, and I guess I choose to look at them both with equal disdain, but in no way am I supporting Israel.
 

Italian Outsider

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honestly, fuck both.
Israel didn't have the right to be created, their ''holy land'' excuse could be used by others too, same for the reason ''they lived there in the past''.
However their right of existance is the right of conquest,they fought, they won.

And, fuck Palestine and muslims in that area too.As long as many of their countries sell their oily asses to US, they have no reason to keep whining.They lost their chance when the shit started, they aren't even able to find an agreement on their own, their armies are pathetically trained, no wonder Isreal repeatedly raped them.
 
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honestly, fuck both.

their armies are pathetically trained, no wonder Isreal repeatedly raped them.

You do raise a good point. Not to sound like a racist douchebag, but I've fought Arabs and they're TERRIBLE militarily. There's something psychologically about them not wanting to conform to strategy or command presence in the heat of a battle situation. I'll tell you first hand from living in Arab countries and seeing their armies close hand, they're fundamentally LAZY when it comes to tactics and training.
 

★Chuck Zombie★

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? :crazy:
Edit but on a serious note -- I never quite understood what you guys actually wanted from us?

How about their land back? Huh? Did that ever ring a bell to you guys. Oh it's all the Palestinians' fault that we're in this war. Why do they have to have a problem with being forcefully removed from their land so "the jews" can have it? <sarcasm I think the bigger question is, what do you guys want out of that land? The history? Fuck, the world is growing non-religious at a faster and faster rate, and I bet you're area will be the last ones to accept that your belief system is stupid (that goes for Jews and Muslims).