The Problem With The Wrestling Business Pt. 1

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Kaedon

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THE PROBLEM WITH THE WRESTLING BUSINESS: PART ONE
By: Raven

Part of the problem with the wrestling business today is that there are too many arm chair bookers buffoons like Glenn Gilbernetti, for example. He insists that title belts are meaningless (much like his life) which is unquestionably the single most moronic thing I have heard since he tried to tell me that Kanyon was straight. The reason he claims (albeit foolishly) that title belts are meaningless is because he believes that no one could possibly care about a fake belt. That reasoning has more holes in it than his unstylishly ripped jeans. Using his asinine logic, no one should care about the monster in Cloverfield because it’s really just some guy in a rubber suit.

No matter what fictional entertainment field you’re engrossed in, be it movies, TV, wrestling, or the opera, you, as an audience member agree to suspend disbelief (not unlike Glenn got suspended in school for being a sissymary). Whether it’s the world of magic for Harry Potter, or the world of the TV show X files, or any other show, book, or what have you, each has its own unique world with its own unique rules. Things that did happen in Harry Potter, like flying on a broom, would look totally foolish and ruin any credibility on a show like Journeyman, yet looks perfectly believable in its own setting. Peter Parker being bitten by a radioactive spider and climbing the walls of Hogwarts would make Harry Potter readers cry foul.

Wrestling has its own unique rules and vernacular and having a midget blow up a boat to kill Sting (which WCW in its infinite stupidity once did) is completely farfetched because of its placement in the supposed real world. Someone should have been arrested for attempted murder. Unfortunately wrestling is sometimes booked in a vacuum where situations like that and Paul White the Giant falling off of Cobo Arena only to miraculously be unscathed are thought to be clever when in actuality all they do in a best case scenario is insult loyal viewers and in a worst case scenario turn people off the product for good. Wrestling is at its best when it’s based in the real world and events are treated as they would be in the real world. What amuses me most about Glenn Gilbernetti besides his four year old like exuberance for stupidity, and his cloying yet obnoxious desire to be loved is that by all rights, what I am writing is something that he should be in agreeance with.

He forced me to listen to a recent article he wrote while gleefully twisting his handlebar moustache like some 1940’s villain as his dog Muttley snickered nearby after tying me to the tracks as an oncoming train approached. He stated that these IWFs (Internet Wrestling Fans) are hurting the business and goes on to elaborate, that it is because they champion these non working cruiserweights who don’t sell and kill credibility. He claims they sell for eight seconds and stop, but I would venture to say that he is being exceedingly generous and three or four seconds is more likely. He also misses the boat by not mentioning that this supposed “selling†that they are doing is not actually selling. When they do stop running around, they go from registering to dying.

There is a whole entire range of emotion and body language on the selling scale that could be encapsulated let’s say for babyfaces as simply as 1)no selling, 2) registering, 3) selling a little, 4) selling some more, 5) selling a lot, 6) selling to the point of hopelessness for the fan that you will ever recover, 7)no hope of recovery,8)signs of life, 9)more signs of life, 10) the possibility that with enough fan encouragement, you can possibly turn this thing around, 11)fire, 12) more fire, 13)fighting back, 14) comeback, 15)the post comeback, pre-finish full body fire to signify to the people that you are back in control and the heel is gonna pay. Also, let us not forget, that one’s body should still show how wracked with pain it is from step 8-step 15 and on through the rest of the match. Understand this, just b/c you are fired up and back in control, does not mean you should be hurting any less. It only means that you have found a way to fight through the pain with the help of the fans support. That is why people love wrestling, b/c they feel like they are a part of the show.

Credit: Wrestlezone.com



I could NOT agree more. Thoughts?
 

ion256

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i agree with him 100% wrestlers need to continue to sell whatever pain they are in long after they get fired -up even going as far as selling it after the match as they leave the ring side area it makes the fans think these guys are really hurt and adds a since of reality to it
 

Tsaalyo Phoenix

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Wrestling has its own unique rules and vernacular and having a midget blow up a boat to kill Sting (which WCW in its infinite stupidity once did) is completely farfetched because of its placement in the supposed real world. Someone should have been arrested for attempted murder. Unfortunately wrestling is sometimes booked in a vacuum where situations like that and Paul White the Giant falling off of Cobo Arena only to miraculously be unscathed are thought to be clever when in actuality all they do in a best case scenario is insult loyal viewers and in a worst case scenario turn people off the product for good. Wrestling is at its best when it’s based in the real world and events are treated as they would be in the real world. What amuses me most about Glenn Gilbernetti besides his four year old like exuberance for stupidity, and his cloying yet obnoxious desire to be loved is that by all rights, what I am writing is something that he should be in agreeance with.
So wait, is he pretty much knocking all creative gimmicks here? Par exemplez, The Undertaker? Kane? Mankind? They're the farthest thing from real-world characters. Is he saying that they shouldn't be in wrestling, that they devalue the product? What about Kennedy throwing Undertaker off the Armageddon set? Jeff's insane Swanton on Randy Orton? Shane jumping off the Titantron? An inferno match, period? Is he saying these things are bad now? *shakes head* Raven, Raven, Raven, just because you're bitter that TNA released you doesn't mean you have to say stupid things. Wrestling cannot survive on pure reality. Other promotions have tried that. Want their names? Can't give you them, they died too quickly to be well known. Wrestling is storytelling. There has to be some unrealism to keep the story exciting and to keep the different characters unique and intriguing.

Edit: What of attacks in the locker room during feuds? Everyone would be charged with assault.
 

PeepShow

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LOL, vernacular. My new favorite word. I love Raven and all of his amazing analogies he comes up with to describe things. It's pretty funny if you ask me.


Anyways, I agree with pretty much all of it. If anyone thinks that Disco Inferno is smart to begin with is pretty insane. Why would Raven care? Seriously.
 

Kaedon

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So wait, is he pretty much knocking all creative gimmicks here? Par exemplez, The Undertaker? Kane? Mankind? They're the farthest thing from real-world characters. Is he saying that they shouldn't be in wrestling, that they devalue the product?

He said GROUNDED in reality, not complete and utter reality. And Undertaker is an actual thing, and they used to dress like he does now back in the 1800's. That is the grounding. Kane is his "brother" based on a story that pretty much everyone knows, and most people accept as real. And an accidental fire is totally a plausable situation. Christ they happen every day. Mankind? Have you never seen someone at a restaurant, walking down the street, at the gas station, or whatever that just looked so fucked up you were kinda scared of him? Everyone has, if not as an adult, then definitely as a child. That is the reality BASE for the characters.

What about Kennedy throwing Undertaker off the Armageddon set? Jeff's insane Swanton on Randy Orton? Shane jumping off the Titantron? An inferno match, period? Is he saying these things are bad now?
You are likely to survive all of those as opposed to, I dunno, FALLING OFF OF A FUCKING ROOF! Of course, you dont know shit about wrestling so you have no idea what he's talking about.

*shakes head* Raven, Raven, Raven, just because you're bitter that TNA released you doesn't mean you have to say stupid things. Wrestling cannot survive on pure reality.

Did he say "pure reality"? No, he said BASED.....IN.....reality. Big difference. Once again, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.




Other promotions have tried that. Want their names? Can't give you them, they died too quickly to be well known. Wrestling is storytelling. There has to be some unrealism to keep the story exciting and to keep the different characters unique and intriguing.


Edit: What of attacks in the locker room during feuds? Everyone would be charged with assault.

Once again, BASED IN reality. Someone doesnt know how to read....:chair:



And Peep, Disco and Raven are actually good friends, or at least they were at one time. He likes to fuck with his friends like that.
 

Tsaalyo Phoenix

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I have things to say, but I choose not to reply until you clean up your post so it's actually a mature discussion. PM me when you manage to do that. Good day.
 

C4

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I personally think that Championship Belts are an important part of the wrestling business, and so I loved how he insulted Glenn Gilbernetti; it was awesome. Looks like he really is on bad terms with the guy. But then again, whatever he said was true. And Kaedon I don't really think that both of them are friends... atleast after reading this I don't.

And by the way, when is he posting his part2?
 

Switchy

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I agree with ost of that and I love how he said Gilberti's life was meaningless lol.

Every single comment made on the belts is true and if there were no titles in wrestling there would be nothing there to fight for and just pretty much people fighting other nothing and that would dry up the wrestling business a lot so I must say I agree with Raven on that and most of the other things he mentioned...
 

Kaedon

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I have things to say, but I choose not to reply until you clean up your post so it's actually a mature discussion. PM me when you manage to do that. Good day.



Translated to debate speak, this says "Ive got nuttin, but I want to make people think I am smart enough to hang with Kaedon because I actually care what people think and want so much to be as smart as he is."
 

This Guy

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^^yeah no kidding. Your post was pretty clear to me. I understood what you were saying. Trying to figure out what was so imature about your post.
 

CenaMark54

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I have things to say, but I choose not to reply until you clean up your post so it's actually a mature discussion. PM me when you manage to do that. Good day.

Why don't you take your own advice and PM him. I should give you an infraction for spam but I won't because i'm feeling nice today.



Anyway, that was a good read and Raven is, more often than not, spot on. It would nice if the WWE took some of Raven's advice when it comes to championship belts.

The IC title in particular has no value right now whatsoever. Its almost like it doesn't exist. Why aren't mid carders chomping at the bit to get a shot at it? It should be every midcarders dream to win that belt, yet no one has challeneged Hardy for it.

It bugs me when title holders are involved in feuds that have nothing to do with the belt they are holding. Lets look at MVP for example. If they are going to be involved in a feud with no focus on a title then they should drop the belt before. Let some others get a rub and have something to fight for.

I think raven also gives great feedback on the art of selling. His example of the progression of selling for a babyface is great. The WWE tends to forget this sometimes. For example, Cena almost never sells long term. He sells short term great, but then he makes his comeback and he doesn't sell the injuries he suffered early in the match. I realize the WWE wants Cena to look strong, but they shouldn't do it at the expense of his opponents. he should make his comback and give the perception that adreline has kicked in, but he should also look like he ahs been in a war at the end.

Great read.
 

Tsaalyo Phoenix

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Your post was pretty clear to me. I understood what you were saying. Trying to figure out what was so imature about your post.
Whether or not his post was understandable was never called into question. I'm referring to the following:

Of course, you dont know shit about wrestling so you have no idea what he's talking about.
Once again, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.
Someone doesnt know how to read....

Completely immature, and I'm not wasting time or energy on someone who will simply turn the post into more flamebaiting. I'm not having an childish argument, Kaedon, sorry. I come here for mature, adult discussion. Clean up your reply so that it's a mature response to what I said, and i'll be more than happy to equally maturely reply and continue discussion of the topic at hand. If you can't comply, don't reply.

Why don't you take your own advice and PM him. I should give you an infraction for spam but I won't because i'm feeling nice today.
If you're going to infract me for spamming, infract Kaedon for flaming and flamebaiting. If you don't like me, fine, kudos to you, but don't be a biased staff member.
 

Kaedon

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Whether or not his post was understandable was never called into question. I'm referring to the following:





Completely immature, and I'm not wasting time or energy on someone who will simply turn the post into more flamebaiting. I'm not having an childish argument, Kaedon, sorry. I come here for mature, adult discussion. Clean up your reply so that it's a mature response to what I said, and i'll be more than happy to equally maturely reply and continue discussion of the topic at hand. If you can't comply, don't reply.


If you're going to infract me for spamming, infract Kaedon for flaming and flamebaiting. If you don't like me, fine, kudos to you, but don't be a biased staff member.



Wow I didnt know saying, "you dont know your shit" is flamebaiting. Then you dont know the difference between the terms "reality based" and "total reality" so I am not surprised.:death_2:
 

Tsaalyo Phoenix

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Ok, fine, let's see how maturely you can respond to this.

He said GROUNDED in reality, not complete and utter reality. And Undertaker is an actual thing, and they used to dress like he does now back in the 1800's. That is the grounding. Kane is his "brother" based on a story that pretty much everyone knows, and most people accept as real. And an accidental fire is totally a plausable situation. Christ they happen every day. Mankind? Have you never seen someone at a restaurant, walking down the street, at the gas station, or whatever that just looked so fucked up you were kinda scared of him? Everyone has, if not as an adult, then definitely as a child. That is the reality BASE for the characters.
Yes, I know an Undertaker is an actual profession. I'm referring to his ability to come back from the dead, summon fire, lightning bolts, control the lights, etc. True, he almost never does this anymore (except the lights thing), but he did it quite often in the past. If what Raven is saying is true, doing this should have severely taken away from his popularity, rather than propelling him to a level rivaling HHH and Cena. Kane, same deal. Mankind lived in the boiler room of "the arena." Forgetting the fact that said arena changes from state to state depending on where they're taping, i'm fairly sure the authorities would yank him out of public property, since legally you can't live there. According to Raven, people should be bound to laws in kayfabe, as shown here.
Wrestling has its own unique rules and vernacular and having a midget blow up a boat to kill Sting (which WCW in its infinite stupidity once did) is completely farfetched because of its placement in the supposed real world. Someone should have been arrested for attempted murder.

You are likely to survive all of those as opposed to, I dunno, FALLING OFF OF A FUCKING ROOF! Of course, you dont know shit about wrestling so you have no idea what he's talking about.
If MVP got third-degree burns to his back, would he be cleared to wrestle the very next week? Hell no. He should be in a hospital bed on constant painkillers, or knocked out entirely until he heals. If Undertaker was thrown off the set onto solid concrete (because in reality there wouldn't be a stunt mat there), i'm pretty sure he wouldn't be getting up, assuming he survived. A Swanton into that box (again, sans stunt mat), same deal. Jumping off the Titantron? Yeah. Not getting up from that.

Did he say "pure reality"? No, he said BASED.....IN.....reality. Big difference. Once again, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.
Once again, BASED IN reality. Someone doesnt know how to read....:chair:
He wants superstars to be bound by real laws in kayfabe. Tell me, if Shaq went into the locker room before a match and beat the holy hell out of a member of the other team with a steel chair, what do you think would happen? Would that member still come out to play, and nobody would do anything? Nope. I predict charges of assault and attempted murder.
 

Kaedon

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Yes, I know an Undertaker is an actual profession. I'm referring to his ability to come back from the dead, summon fire, lightning bolts, control the lights, etc. True, he almost never does this anymore (except the lights thing), but he did it quite often in the past. If what Raven is saying is true, doing this should have severely taken away from his popularity, rather than propelling him to a level rivaling HHH and Cena. Kane, same deal. Mankind lived in the boiler room of "the arena." Forgetting the fact that said arena changes from state to state depending on where they're taping, i'm fairly sure the authorities would yank him out of public property, since legally you can't live there. According to Raven, people should be bound to laws in kayfabe, as shown here.

If MVP got third-degree burns to his back, would he be cleared to wrestle the very next week? Hell no. He should be in a hospital bed on constant painkillers, or knocked out entirely until he heals. If Undertaker was thrown off the set onto solid concrete (because in reality there wouldn't be a stunt mat there), i'm pretty sure he wouldn't be getting up, assuming he survived. A Swanton into that box (again, sans stunt mat), same deal. Jumping off the Titantron? Yeah. Not getting up from that.



He wants superstars to be bound by real laws in kayfabe. Tell me, if Shaq went into the locker room before a match and beat the holy hell out of a member of the other team with a steel chair, what do you think would happen? Would that member still come out to play, and nobody would do anything? Nope. I predict charges of assault and attempted murder.


You still dont understand the difference between being BASED in reality, and being REAL! There is no way to make it any clearer. Just because there are exaggerated characteristics, doesnt mean it still is not based in reality.

Let me put it to you like this, you KNOW Darth Vader isn't a real person, and you KNOW Garfield the cat isn't a real cat either. But if Garfield beats the shit out of Darth Vader, EVERYONE will go "What the fuck!?" Yes the fight is fake, yes both characters are fake, but if there is no credulity to it IE no BASIS IN REALITY, it doesn't work, draw, register with the fans, or whatever.

Shaq beating up somebody in the locker room in the NBA is difference because ITS NOT A FUCKING WORK! The WWE is. If Batman teamed up with Yoda, no one would fucking buy it because that has no basis in either of the given REALITIES that both of the characters inhabit.