My take on the cats you mark for

[JC4Life37]

Daniel Bryan - Chill the f*** out, you clones. His placement on every RAW is something to behold. Orton has both belts and nobody gives 2 f***s about the guy. Check your history, getting screwed over is a part of the process and gets you even more stroke
Punk - For a guy who's never been de-pushed, he's sure got a tender a**. Wipe the tear out of your eye then go away
Randy Orton and Batista - How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? Well, Vince knows and apparently HHH's junk is a tootsie pop
Reigns - If you think Cena's getting it bad, this cat will get it far worse. He isn't a people person...I'd call him the next Batista at best
Cesaro - Special...until he breathes on stick
Ambrose - Is what happens when IWC love supercedes actual ability
Rollins - Aside from Bray, the best 'sure' thing. He won't draw, but has a likability you can't teach
Ziggler - Considering the 'E' pushed HBK of all people, I don't get this...but his mannerisms scream jobber and needs to take a lesson from Y2J (who had the same problem for years) on how to overcome that stigma

Side note: Daniel Bryan is extremely limited and the 'E' is smart for knowing that. The Universe are idiots honestly and he'd be a much better heel unless he befriends a needle named HGH

 

[Ovaldinho]

You put over so much talent in this thread it's ridiculous.

 

[JC4Life37]

I actually came in here to spit venom, but I'm far too logical to carried away burning a cat's cape when its all WWE booking anyway.

 

[Crayo]

I liked because I agreed with most. The IWC has a history of overrating people because of their current place in the company. As soon as they get what the IWC wants them to get, you get the hipsters who turn on them, and eventually the whole IWC does. That whole process is just frustrating and predictable, but in Daniel Bryan's situation, their frustration about his position is completely just.

Someone this over should already have had some sort of reward or should be on the process of getting it. The whole Authority angle STARTED by HHH screwing Bryan... Bryan -- the most over guy in the company by a billion miles -- still hasn't had his pay off. Instead he's getting these side feuds with Shield, Kane, HHH, and other stars fans just don't particularly care about him facing, when he should be on the road to the Wrestlemania pay off. The reaction to him not winning the Rumble wasn't just a bunch of marks not seeing their favourite star; it was a reaction that showed how frustrated WWE fans are by not getting what they want and pay to see. The guy is so over that it's breaking into mainstream shit, and I feel many fans of Bryan think that if anyone else was this over then they would have already had their pay-off by now.

 

[JC4Life37]

Let's suppose hypothetically, Bryan won the title at Summerslam and kept it until TLC where he unified the belts....If he then, lost the belt(s) at Royal Rumble the same people would be outraged that (Cena) took the belt off him well before Mania

On the other hand, if Bryan won the title at Summerslam and kept it until Mania those fans would turn on him because faces generally start long title reigns in April, not August... because the fall months generally do terrible numbers anyways

What would you prefer? Bryan holding the belt through historically bad PPV months or would you prefer he maintain his popularity and when it when business goes up again slightly after April?


Bryan has lost nothing in all this, despite what you or the IWC may believe. So he hasn't worn the strap... big deal... The Rock lost the belt at WM 15 and didn't get it back until 13 months later.....and got insanely over in that period of time

 

[Crayo]

None. Bryan should have kept being screwed month after month since HHH's turn, but Bryan should have won the Rumble. Authority desperately try and remove his right to main event and challenge their champion at Wrestlemania by shoving him in some stipulation bullshit at Elimination Chamber. He overcomes that, the fans go fucking wild, and a LOT of people suddenly REALLY care about Wrestlemania due to Bryan's chance to overcome the odds. The whole angle should have been based on Bryan overcoming the odds like every single fucking fan want to see him do.

I'm not saying Bryan has lost anything and I don't see many others saying that either. The dude is the most over by a mile and it's getting to the point where I don't think he can lose much, but that's no excuse to force wrestlers we don't give a fuck about down our throats when the guy we're backing is getting pushed into shitty matches. That's mine and many others' opinion on it. It's not that we worry about his company spot, it's that we're not getting the TV that 99% of the fans are demanding. WWE officials have historically said that to get success they need to win us over... Bryan has won us over and more.

 

[JC4Life37]

But Bryan already is the most over cat in the company and these obstacles mean nothing unless they are against main event caliber superstars...

Royal Rumble wins, while okay, could easily be called flukes if you consider how many injured superstars have come back to win them (Cena, Edge, HHH). If a rusty cat keeps winning them by drawing #30 the prestige of winning goes down. Which is what's happened

But if Bryan goes over Cena clean, then beats HHH/Taker or Sheamus (who is a main event player whether we agree or not) at Mania, then defeats Batista in June wouldn't that be so much better in comparison? Better than simply overcoming odds

 

[Crayo]

Not at all. The payoff needed to happen at Wrestlemania. Him coming out at whatever number would have made the Rumble so much better and the crowd would have erupted. Nothing could top him being in a main event of Wrestlemania in a title match after just two years ago he jobbed in 11 seconds or whatever it was. Wrestlemania moments are priceless and instead of giving Bryan one they give us Batista vs Orton... FUN.

 

[JC4Life37]

That's a fair take. I take events with a grain of salt personally considering the night after Mania often provides better entertainment than Mania itself.

Rumble win and over Orton at Mania <<< Over HHH/Sheamus and Over Batista ... both situations are nice, but pinning HHH and Batista (or making them submit) beats a Rumble win and beating Orton (even Rey Mysterio did that)

I respect any strong and spirited debate, though we probably will never see eye to eye on the parameters.

 

[Senhor Perfect]

Meow

 

[Pop Tatari]

I enjoyed reading this.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

Dolph's mannerisms don't scream jobber :sad1:

 

[Lockard 23]

I can't disagree with most of what you wrote. But the Daniel Bryan stuff is getting beyond ridiculous. This was truly the first "Wrestlemania Journey" story that we've had probably since 2006 with Rey Mysterio or possibly even 2005 with Cena and Batista (if you look at it a certain way.) The fans have been clamoring to see Bryan become champion for two years and the way Bryan was screwed last Summer and then screwed again repeatedly throughout the Fall all pointed towards Bryan earning one last title shot by winning the Rumble and then the title at Wrestlemania. I figured that was the long term plan since the day he was screwed at Summerslam, but I guess I shouldn't have given WWE that much credit.

Also, it's hard to compare him to The Rock from 1999. A better comparison from that time frame would have been with Austin himself. Austin was the #1 babyface on the show and he got screwed out of the title in September of 1998 and when he finally reclaimed the belt, it happened at - you guessed it - Wrestlemania the next year. That's the kind of booking Bryan should have gotten imo. And hell, Austin had already had a reign with the championship (technically two different reigns separated by only a day from when he lost the title at KOTR '98 but then won it back the next night) before even that happened. Bryan is still hoping for just that ONE reign.

The fans are obviously letting WWE know Bryan is the man they want to see as their champion but the 'E aren't listening. And even the fact that Bryan's size might be a factor makes me scratch my head given that a less popular vanilla midget like Chris Benoit headlined Wrestlemania ten years ago, and back then, that event garnered the largest WWE buy rate in history (showing that when the event itself is prestigious enough and has enough hype surrounding it, it will sell regardless.)

 

[JC4Life37]

Dolph's mannerisms don't scream jobber :sad1:

He had more swagger pre-Vickie as well as during his run with AJ. Every other time, it seems the audience is in his head too much. He needs to start wrestling and doing business for Dolph/Nick, not WWE and not the Universe

The NWO destroyed WCW for this very reason.... give up the passion... stop hustling...stop giving your all. If Kevin Nash taught me anything in life, its that the only thing that matters is me

I can't disagree with most of what you wrote. But the Daniel Bryan stuff is getting beyond ridiculous. This was truly the first "Wrestlemania Journey" story that we've had probably since 2006 with Rey Mysterio or possibly even 2005 with Cena and Batista (if you look at it a certain way.) The fans have been clamoring to see Bryan become champion for two years and the way Bryan was screwed last Summer and then screwed again repeatedly throughout the Fall all pointed towards Bryan earning one last title shot by winning the Rumble and then the title at Wrestlemania. I figured that was the long term plan since the day he was screwed at Summerslam, but I guess I shouldn't have given WWE that much credit.

Also, it's hard to compare him to The Rock from 1999. A better comparison from that time frame would have been with Austin himself. Austin was the #1 babyface on the show and he got screwed out of the title in September of 1998 and when he finally reclaimed the belt, it happened at - you guessed it - Wrestlemania the next year. That's the kind of booking Bryan should have gotten imo. And hell, Austin had already had a reign with the championship (technically two different reigns separated by only a day from when he lost the title at KOTR '98 but then won it back the next night) before even that happened. Bryan is still hoping for just that ONE reign.

The fans are obviously letting WWE know Bryan is the man they want to see as their champion but the 'E aren't listening. And even the fact that Bryan's size might be a factor makes me scratch my head given that a less popular vanilla midget like Chris Benoit headlined Wrestlemania ten years ago, and back then, that event garnered the largest WWE buy rate in history (showing that when the event itself is prestigious enough and has enough hype surrounding it, it will sell regardless.)

My Rock comparison generally relates the fact that he got over as a heel, lost the belt, then got over as a face... almost immediately. He did great business for an entire calendar year (13 months actually) as a babyface without winning the title

My only issue with the 'E' at this point stems from the fact that they are resembling WCW by the growing day. Guys like Jericho, Eddie, Benoit left WCW for backstage politics and Bryan may have a similar argument.

I was never necessarily anti-WCW but the fact Triple H (Kliq member) has such a heavy hand in all this smells funny to me. At some point, it just makes WWE look Blue... like literally Blue

 

[Lockard 23]

My Rock comparison generally relates the fact that he got over as a heel, lost the belt, then got over as a face... almost immediately. He did great business for an entire calendar year (13 months actually) as a babyface without winning the title

My only issue with the 'E' at this point stems from the fact that they are resembling WCW by the growing day. Guys like Jericho, Eddie, Benoit left WCW for backstage politics and Bryan may have a similar argument.

I was never necessarily anti-WCW but the fact Triple H (Kliq member) has such a heavy hand in all this smells funny to me. At some point, it just makes WWE look Blue... like literally Blue

There's no way Bryan would walk out on WWE. Even with them refusing to crown him world champion for a certain number of months as of yet, he is still heavily pushed into a top spot and has garnered victories over John Cena, Randy Orton, Big Show, Mark Henry, The Shield, Sheamus, Kane and IMO, soon to be Triple H. He is often in the opening and closing segments of Raw. I'm sure it's quite frustrating to be the most popular guy on the show and still not be made world champion for even the duration of just one title reign but all in all, I can assure you he isn't complaining too much. The handling of guys like Benoit and the others in WCW was quite a bit different. When were they ever pushed this hard in that company?