Dortmund are the dark horses.

[Crayo]

Said this from day one. Why? Because I watch the Bundesliga and they are definitely the Barcelona of that league. Sure Bayern are fantastic to watch but Dortmund play better football with "worse" players. Dortmund's league form is poor this year where as Bayern's was fantastic, but that's what the CL does to you when you concentrate on it.

Bayern did it last year, they dominated the CL, knocked out the big guns but flopped in the league and the German cup. Dortmund outplayed City at the Etihad by a mile, they outplayed Madrid at home by a mile and I've yet to see the draw at Madrid's stadium (cba to spell that). Seriously, they are the dark horses. My favourites in order:

Real Madrid
Barcelona
Dortmund
Man United
Bayern Munich

But the top three is basically joint first. If Barcelona have a fully fit team then they go #1, but if they continue to have their midget defence then lol bye. Madrid by then will have picked up form, and they ALWAYS perform in the big games at the moment. Already said why Dortmund are amazing, the passing football they play is sensational. United have an outstanding attack, and so do Bayern.

 

[Rysenberg]

The thing with Barca is they need to come up with a plan B, Neil Lennon played them absolutely wonderfully at Celtic Park and it's what my Uncle and I have been saying should be done against them for years - play a flat, deep and narrow back 4 and no matter how much they try to entice your full backs to drift wide, don't. For whatever reason they always try and work their way centrally again, and if you just box them in then they have no way past it.

I totally agree Dortmund could be contender for the CL, they suit the Euro style so well. They play great football, but they actually have a natural STRIKER which Barca totally lack. Messi may be the best player in the world but there are times where you need an absolute beast of a man like Lewandowski. Seriously, there are very men who I would let take me up the arse but he is one of them.

Personally though, think Jose's men will win it.

1. Real Madrid
2. Man United
3. Dortmundoooo
4. Bayern
5. (Outsiders) Malaga? There's usually one random team who goes far.


Haven't paid enough attention to anyone else, but I refuse to put Barca in there unless they sign a poacher in Jan, and I'm doubtful they will.

 

[Crayo]

I disagree, they don't need a poacher imo. They've had fantastic poachers over the years in Eto, Ibra, Larsson, Henry, and they all fail (well Eto didn't, but Barca were different then). The style doesn't suit it. I agree that that system that Celtic played is the best way to play against Barca, but it isn't guaranteed, in fact normally it ALWAYS fails. Barca aren't regarded as the best team ever because of their titles, they are regarded as the best team ever because their style is so unique and it seems unbeatable. Sure Celtic won, but the goals were set pieces and such. Barca had the smallest team in Europe, it would be a crime if your centre backs didn't out jump Adriano (5 ft something) and Macherano (5 ft something). I think WITH Puyol and Pique you NEED to put them in there as favourites or 2nd favourites, Barca don't struggle scoring, not when they have the best ever (Messi) in their team.

An example is Chelsea. Sure they beat Barca last year doing this style, but there's a reason people call it lucky. Barca missed a shit load of chances, real sitters. I personally think the BEST way to play Barca is do what Madrid do and press them ridiculously hard -- as a team -- and when you score just sit back and soak it up. However, Madrid have arguably the best squad in world football so that's why they can do that, as they CAN keep the ball. It's often 60-40 in terms of possession with those two, and 40 percent against Barca is near impossible now'adays.

However, without Puyol and Pique, I agree. I don't really list them as contenders without those two, they are the best passing centre backs in the world. Nice call on Malaga.

 

[Robbie Coletrain]

R'Albin you've been replying to this thread for about an hour, will you hurry the f*** up so I can read it!? :yuno:

 

[Rysenberg]

I disagree, they don't need a poacher imo. They've had fantastic poachers over the years in Eto, Ibra, Larsson, Henry, and they all fail (well Eto didn't, but Barca were different then). The style doesn't suit it. I agree that that system that Celtic played is the best way to play against Barca, but it isn't guaranteed, in fact normally it ALWAYS fails. Barca aren't regarded as the best team ever because of their titles, they are regarded as the best team ever because their style is so unique and it seems unbeatable. Sure Celtic won, but the goals were set pieces and such. Barca had the smallest team in Europe, it would be a crime if your centre backs didn't out jump Adriano (5 ft something) and Macherano (5 ft something). I think WITH Puyol and Pique you NEED to put them in there as favourites or 2nd favourites, Barca don't struggle scoring, not when they have the best ever (Messi) in their team.

An example is Chelsea. Sure they beat Barca last year doing this style, but there's a reason people call it lucky. Barca missed a shit load of chances, real sitters. I personally think the BEST way to play Barca is do what Madrid do and press them ridiculously hard -- as a team -- and when you score just sit back and soak it up. However, Madrid have arguably the best squad in world football so that's why they can do that, as they CAN keep the ball. It's often 60-40 in terms of possession with those two, and 40 percent against Barca is near impossible now'adays.

However, without Puyol and Pique, I agree. I don't really list them as contenders without those two, they are the best passing centre backs in the world. Nice call on Malaga.

Yeah, I agree that a poacher wouldn't fit in at all with the style they play, but that's what I'm getting at. If they were able to readjust at half time and bring on Eto'o, pushing Messi and Sanchez out wide driving at the Celtic back four they would have won that game, comfortably. I'm sorry but you can't deny that Barca should have mixed up their offence? And yeah, of course Celtic were lucky in some respects, they are a pretty poor side. I mean for the love of god, teams like Kilmarnock and Hibs have gone to Celtic Park this season, taken points off of them and scored a couple of goals in the process. They weren't gonna win that game without a bit of luck at least. However, it was more than just luck, it was tactical genius from Lennon you must agree?

Never seen the majority of the Barca/Chelsea game so can't comment. Managed to start watching in time for :gary: 's noise 1:

Yeah, totally agree on Puyol and Pique. That reminds me, I remember when Guardiola used to sometimes put Pique up front, it was so effective - I just don't think this new guy has it in him. But yeah, if they were playing I don't think Celtic would have won.

 

[Rysenberg]

R'Albin you've been replying to this thread for about an hour, will you hurry the f*** up so I can read it!? :yuno:

Lmao I was away having tea, in shock that anyone actually reads the debates between Crayo and I :shock:

 

[Robbie Coletrain]

Lmao, yeah I like to see what you both think, but I would like an apology for taking so long, I think that is reasonable. :smug1:

 

[Rysenberg]

Lmao, yeah I like to see what you both think, but I would like an apology for taking so long, I think that is reasonable. :smug1:

I'm sorr.... LOLNO FUCK YOU :finger:

 

[Robbie Coletrain]

I WILL RIP YOUR THROAT OUT YOU DIRTY LITTLE S*** IF YOU DARE SWEAR AT ME AGAIN I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND DESTROY YOU! ipebombe:

 

[Rysenberg]

lease:

I'm sorry :

 

[Robbie Coletrain]

:smug: thank you, you are forgiven.

 

[Crayo]

Yeah, I agree that a poacher wouldn't fit in at all with the style they play, but that's what I'm getting at. If they were able to readjust at half time and bring on Eto'o, pushing Messi and Sanchez out wide driving at the Celtic back four they would have won that game, comfortably. I'm sorry but you can't deny that Barca should have mixed up their offence? And yeah, of course Celtic were lucky in some respects, they are a pretty poor side. I mean for the love of god, teams like Kilmarnock and Hibs have gone to Celtic Park this season, taken points off of them and scored a couple of goals in the process. They weren't gonna win that game without a bit of luck at least. However, it was more than just luck, it was tactical genius from Lennon you must agree?

Never seen the majority of the Barca/Chelsea game so can't comment. Managed to start watching in time for :gary: 's noise 1:

Yeah, totally agree on Puyol and Pique. That reminds me, I remember when Guardiola used to sometimes put Pique up front, it was so effective - I just don't think this new guy has it in him. But yeah, if they were playing I don't think Celtic would have won.

Maybe. To put Messi out wide is wrong, I would just have him in-behind the poacher. They don't need to buy a poacher, they have one of the best in the world in David Villa. It was tactically great from Lennon but it wasn't anything new. All football fans knew to sit deep and try and score headers against a midget team like Barca, but hats off to Lennon and Celtic players for performing it, I'm just surprised Barca haven't bought replacements for their centre backs, this isn't new. This has been going on for like 2-3 years now where they have no backup centre backs and they become a team of midgets. All good teams need power somewhere, and I doubt you'll get that from Sergio Busquets 1:

As for Barca changing their style when they need to, I don't really see the need. Perhaps sometimes actually CROSSING the ball instead of coming out could be great, but once again, they need Pique. Like you said he can play up front and is the big strong target man for when they need to do things like that. I heard Barca were interested in Drogba though, so perhaps they are looking for just a goal scorer, who knows. Messi scores all Barca's goals so it's likely.

It's interesting how key two centre backs are to Barca's style, most casual fans would never guess that taking out two big centre backs effects Barca's passing style, but it really does. This is why Mancini is axing Lescott and playing Nastasic instead, playing-centre backs is the future.

 

[Rysenberg]

Maybe. To put Messi out wide is wrong, I would just have him in-behind the poacher. They don't need to buy a poacher, they have one of the best in the world in David Villa. It was tactically great from Lennon but it wasn't anything new. All football fans knew to sit deep and try and score headers against a midget team like Barca, but hats off to Lennon and Celtic players for performing it, I'm just surprised Barca haven't bought replacements for their centre backs, this isn't new. This has been going on for like 2-3 years now where they have no backup centre backs and they become a team of midgets. All good teams need power somewhere, and I doubt you'll get that from Sergio Busquets 1:

As for Barca changing their style when they need to, I don't really see the need. Perhaps sometimes actually CROSSING the ball instead of coming out could be great, but once again, they need Pique. Like you said he can play up front and is the big strong target man for when they need to do things like that. I heard Barca were interested in Drogba though, so perhaps they are looking for just a goal scorer, who knows. Messi scores all Barca's goals so it's likely.

It's interesting how key two centre backs are to Barca's style, most casual fans would never guess that taking out two big centre backs effects Barca's passing style, but it really does. This is why Mancini is axing Lescott and playing Nastasic instead, playing-centre backs is the future.

I'm sorry but there was a lot more to it that simply sitting deep. The Celtic defence is so incredibly average so to keep Barca at one goal took incredible discipline from the defence and Lennon as a coach. No matter how much Barca invited them to go out wide they didn't and that takes a lot more thought than anything your average punter could come up with. (Wow I sounded like a dick there) It was also more than 'scoring headers against a midget team', their defensive play was sublime and the last goal was a very good finish from an 18 year old that Lennon had the balls to take on.

Villa doesn't really get played in the goalscoring role though, there was a few times I thought 'wow, if a striker had made a decent run there'. Besides, he's just not got the power that Lewandowski, Eto'o or Benzema had which would benefit them greatly in this instance.I think Drogba could be an incredible signing for Barca, he'll score shitloads for them and generally cause havoc within defenses like Celtic's.

And yeah, very good point at the end there. Barca are about way more than passing football.

 

[Crayo]

I'm sorry but there was a lot more to it that simply sitting deep. The Celtic defence is so incredibly average so to keep Barca at one goal took incredible discipline from the defence and Lennon as a coach. No matter how much Barca invited them to go out wide they didn't and that takes a lot more thought than anything your average punter could come up with. (Wow I sounded like a dick there) It was also more than 'scoring headers against a midget team', their defensive play was sublime and the last goal was a very good finish from an 18 year old that Lennon had the balls to take on.

Villa doesn't really get played in the goalscoring role though, there was a few times I thought 'wow, if a striker had made a decent run there'. Besides, he's just not got the power that Lewandowski, Eto'o or Benzema had which would benefit them greatly in this instance.

I think Drgoba could be an incredible signing for Barca, he'll score shitloads for them and generally cause havoc within defenses like Celtic's.

And yeah, very good point at the end there. Barca are about way more than passing football.

Yeah I know, I was just summarising the tactic up by "sitting deep" because that's basically the core of it lol. Of course there's other factors but I cba to type all that, "the deep tactic" works fine for me. Celtic aren't the first to play that tactic though, the real "genius" as it were was Di Matteo last year, to play it in the semi-final(s) of the champions league is a risky move. I'm a big Lennon fan though so this isn't me having a go at him, he too was a genius to play it but I don't really see what other choice he had. He did well to have his players be that disciplined though, he gets half the credit and so do they.

Three of the goals Celtic scored against Barca (both games) were set piece goals. That's the point I'm making, Lennon was sublime but to be honest there isn't much pressure against Barca. If they lost he wouldn't have got raped by media saying "OMG Y PLAY YOUNG PLAYER?" would he? Of course not, but it was a fantastic champions league occasion anyway and it does outline that Barca are beatable, and much more beatable without their centre backs.

Villa doesn't play ST any more no, because they play him out wide. Have you ever seen him play for Valencia where at one point he was the best striker in the world? The role he plays for Spain (and is so successful at) is his main role, and he could easily play that poacher role. Lewandowski would do well at Barcelona as he can pass, as would Benzema, but I don't feel the need to pay a large amount for a striker when you have Messi and Villa, and possibly Drogba (which I think would be a free). You say power might benefit Barca, but Ibra flopped there, and is arguably one of the most powerful and technically gifted strikers in the world.

 

[Rysenberg]

Yeah I know, I was just summarising the tactic up by "sitting deep" because that's basically the core of it lol. Of course there's other factors but I cba to type all that, "the deep tactic" works fine for me. Celtic aren't the first to play that tactic though, the real "genius" as it were was Di Matteo last year, to play it in the semi-final(s) of the champions league is a risky move. I'm a big Lennon fan though so this isn't me having a go at him, he too was a genius to play it but I don't really see what other choice he had. He did well to have his players be that disciplined though, he gets half the credit and so do they.

Three of the goals Celtic scored against Barca (both games) were set piece goals. That's the point I'm making, Lennon was sublime but to be honest there isn't much pressure against Barca. If they lost he wouldn't have got raped by media saying "OMG Y PLAY YOUNG PLAYER?" would he? Of course not, but it was a fantastic champions league occasion anyway and it does outline that Barca are beatable, and much more beatable without their centre backs.

Villa doesn't play ST any more no, because they play him out wide. Have you ever seen him play for Valencia where at one point he was the best striker in the world? The role he plays for Spain (and is so successful at) is his main role, and he could easily play that poacher role. Lewandowski would do well at Barcelona as he can pass, as would Benzema, but I don't feel the need to pay a large amount for a striker when you have Messi and Villa, and possibly Drogba (which I think would be a free). You say power might benefit Barca, but Ibra flopped there, and is arguably one of the most powerful and technically gifted strikers in the world.

As I said I never seen the semi final, however, if you're wanting to give credit to the person who first played that kind of system against Barca then look at Mourinho in 2010, with Inter at the Nou Camp. Beautiful stuff.

Yeah fair point with regards to the young guy, but I honestly think in Lennon's case he doesn't care what the media thinks. All he cares about is Celtic and him persistently behaving like a neanderthal proves that. And I never seen the first game (seriously, fuck training) but only one of the goals on Wednesday came from a set piece, the other was that goal which came as a result of Xavi royally fucking up.

Yeah I actually got orgasmic over Villa when he was at Valencia. He suited their style so well as they played to him, rather than Barca where he plays to their style. And yeah, Messi and Villa are great strikers but they need to add some more variety to their team, and adding a bigger striker would do wonders for them IMO. Besides, this is the team that gave Eto'o + 40mil for Imbrahimovic, like they give a fuck about money lol.