Deathmatch Discussion

[Jeffry Mason]

Whether it's flippy bullshit, fake WWE-style, comedy, or garbage deathmatch, everyone enjoys a certain style more than other styles. I've been a wrestling fan for about 24 years now, and while I am a fan of almost every style there is, deathmatch wrestling has always been the most interesting and/or exciting to me. So...let's have a place to discuss it.

The good, the bad (there is a LOT of bad, unfortunately), and the ugly. Post some of your favorite matches, moments, or highlight videos. Talk about past or future shows. Be sad when the thread only lasts like 5 replies and you have to go back to the nonsensical fuckery of the Zandigfans board . Etc etc. All the good stuff.

As a starter question, I'll ask this: Which of the two major competing deathmatch tournaments are you looking forward to the most this year? Should be a very interesting year considering both TOD and TOS have decided to only let their entrants be in one or the other, and therefore there are two tournaments within a week of each other that have entirely different rosters. Both tournaments have an international star (Masashi Takeda in GCW and Jimmy Havoc in CZW), and while GCW has filled two of their spots with the returns of Nick Gage and Zandig, CZW actually has a debuting guy in every match.

 

[Jeffry Mason]

Tournament of Survival is this coming this Saturday, less than a week away. Here is the current lineup, in case you have been living under a rock.

Havoc's original opponent, Viking, has taken himself out of the tournament, and it looks as though his replacement will not be named until the actual show. My guess is Nate Hatred, but it's GCW, meaning it could be just about anybody in the world.

Anyone else gonna be at this show?

 

[¡Tranquilo!]

Just found this through Reddit. really, really brutal.

 

[Jeffry Mason]

Just found this through Reddit. really, really brutal.

Such an incredible match.

 

[Nikki Nitro]

Uh... WOW! Brutal..... And a Ring with WOODEN flooring?! Yikes

 

[Jeffry Mason]

Uh... WOW! Brutal..... And a Ring with WOODEN flooring?! Yikes

Plus glass, BBQ skewers, barbed wire, etc...and two wrestlers who can actually wrestle a technical match, but also just don't give a fuck. It's a recipe for beautiful & brilliant brutality

 

[Brother Loathe]

I know I might be somewhat stirring the pot, but deathmatches to me have always just been stupid because it requires absolutely no talent, is completely unrealistic and genuinely hard to watch, which is the complete opposite of what you want to do in a wrestling match.

 

[¡Tranquilo!]

That's the appeal of Deathmatch Wrestling and I'd argue it takes some amount of talent to not die in a deathmatch.

 

[Brother Loathe]

That's the appeal of Deathmatch Wrestling and I'd argue it takes some amount of talent to not die in a deathmatch.

Not really, it's like saying it takes talent not to die in a car crash and I don't really see how not wanting to see what's going on makes it an interesting or appealing as it's completely contradictory.

 

[¡Tranquilo!]

Not really, it's like saying it takes talent not to die in a car crash and I don't really see how not wanting to see what's going on makes it an interesting or appealing as it's completely contradictory.

It takes the same amount of talent to not botch a suplex or a neckbreaker as it does to not botch a death match spot. It's still wrestling at the end of the day and they don't want to kill their co-worker.

 

[Jeffry Mason]

I know I might be somewhat stirring the pot, but deathmatches to me have always just been stupid because it requires absolutely no talent, is completely unrealistic and genuinely hard to watch, which is the complete opposite of what you want to do in a wrestling match.

The pot is meant to be stirred in this case. Here's my take on it, which I posted elsewhere to a similar discussion I had recently:

Being a huge fan of deathmatch wrestling without being a "blood mark" is a wonderful thing. When deathmatches are looked at objectively, instead of one of the two usual stances people take on it ("that's not wrestling it's just a bunch of untrained yarders hitting each other with stuff", or "he only lost 3 pints of blood, back in the good days they'd lose gallons, this new stuff sucks"), you can take the same things away from it as the other "genres" of wrestling. Take my two examples from above, for starters. The fans who feel the first way about deathmatches are easily comparable to the fans who disapprove of the high-flying flippy spot monkey style, or of the Japanese strong style. The fans who feel the second way are quite obviously reminiscent of the nostalgic Attitude Era diehards who are still living in the past.

If you want to look at comparisons of the wrestling itself, look at the psychology. With the high-flying style, rest holds are replaced with things such as the "indie showdown" after a quick sequence of flippy stuff, or something similar usually. In a lot of deathmatches, the rest holds are also still there, but are replaced instead with the grinding of the sharp weapon to the forehead spot. Also, when it's done right, deathmatch wrestlers will often tease the spots for a while, such as whipping each other toward a glass pane in the corner only for the guy to "put on the brakes" at the last moment. Then there's all the limb-working, the crowd-playing, the comedy spots, the high-flying spots, etc. At the end of the day, deathmatches are just another genre of wrestling the same way that polka is another genre of music.

And if anyone is wondering what I mean when I say "when it's done right"; I mean two things by this. One, if the promoter both knows how to book a show and isn't a total scumbag. And two, if the wrestlers are properly trained how to wrestle instead of just guys going out there, playing tough guy, and either getting hurt or sucking (or both). Anyone who pays any attention to the indies, specifically their local indies, knows that neither of these things is exclusive to deathmatches, either. I've sat through enough awful "old midcard "legend"" vs. "even older local high school baseball coach" matches to tell you that from experience. Just know what you're getting yourself into before you go to any show, and know at what level to set you expectations accordingly

 

[Brother Loathe]

The pot is meant to be stirred in this case. Here's my take on it, which I posted elsewhere to a similar discussion I had recently:

Being a huge fan of deathmatch wrestling without being a "blood mark" is a wonderful thing. When deathmatches are looked at objectively, instead of one of the two usual stances people take on it ("that's not wrestling it's just a bunch of untrained yarders hitting each other with stuff", or "he only lost 3 pints of blood, back in the good days they'd lose gallons, this new stuff sucks"), you can take the same things away from it as the other "genres" of wrestling. Take my two examples from above, for starters. The fans who feel the first way about deathmatches are easily comparable to the fans who disapprove of the high-flying flippy spot monkey style, or of the Japanese strong style. The fans who feel the second way are quite obviously reminiscent of the nostalgic Attitude Era diehards who are still living in the past.

If you want to look at comparisons of the wrestling itself, look at the psychology. With the high-flying style, rest holds are replaced with things such as the "indie showdown" after a quick sequence of flippy stuff, or something similar usually. In a lot of deathmatches, the rest holds are also still there, but are replaced instead with the grinding of the sharp weapon to the forehead spot. Also, when it's done right, deathmatch wrestlers will often tease the spots for a while, such as whipping each other toward a glass pane in the corner only for the guy to "put on the brakes" at the last moment. Then there's all the limb-working, the crowd-playing, the comedy spots, the high-flying spots, etc. At the end of the day, deathmatches are just another genre of wrestling the same way that polka is another genre of music.

And if anyone is wondering what I mean when I say "when it's done right"; I mean two things by this. One, if the promoter both knows how to book a show and isn't a total scumbag. And two, if the wrestlers are properly trained how to wrestle instead of just guys going out there, playing tough guy, and either getting hurt or sucking (or both). Anyone who pays any attention to the indies, specifically their local indies, knows that neither of these things is exclusive to deathmatches, either. I've sat through enough awful "old midcard "legend"" vs. "even older local high school baseball coach" matches to tell you that from experience. Just know what you're getting yourself into before you go to any show, and know at what level to set you expectations accordingly

I agree deathmatches are good if it's the older style where they actually sell what they're doing and don't do completely unbelievable shit and then just stand up straight after getting power bombed through a glass table (which again doesn't imply these guys are crazy and will do whatever it takes but are just plain fucking stupid like the people who do crazy stunts on YouTube).

I've never been a huge fan of much hardcore stuff in wrestling because not only does it make the guys and the show look stupid but is unbelievable and not the only "Holy Shit!" unbelievable but "That's not a real table" or "Who's stupid enough to do this?" I don't even like weapons being used like the sledgehammer, if you actually hit someone in the head or the stomach with one at full force, they're not getting back up.

I understand they use the underpinning base of a wrestling match but why are you going to use rest holds or target a limb like you're in a Flair match if you just going to carve him like a Christmas turkey.

Overall, when deathmatches are used for the right feud, sold well, used rarely and they don't do overly stupid shit (like in any gimmick matches). Not in CZW where I don't care what anybody says there's no story and the point in the match is who can kill each other first and often isn't even for a title, df?