Champions should look like Champions

[seX-Power]

I don't get the WWE's incentive to cleanly job out their champions or make them look weak whenever they aren't even in major feuds. I mean, if the champion is going to enter a large fued, or eventually lose the title, then a clean win is okay, but still makes the champion look too weak and takes away from the believability factor. Examples of this are Rey Mysterio's World Title reign, Shelton Benjamin's US title reign and Beth Phoenix's Women's title reign. In all three examples, the champions have lost cleanly in non title matches and nothing has come of it. I don't get why this happens as you don't want to bury your company's champions. Even when pushing a new star, this is the wrong way to let them get over, especially if there is no feud even started from it.

So, what are your thoughts on WWE's tendency to let their champions lose clean, for sometimes no apparent reason than to let the opponent get over and then move on, without a feud?

 

[MikeRaw]

Ya, its almost like they want it to be an upset when they manage to win when the titles on the line.
For the most part, it's a heel who loses cleanly to a face during a weekly show, and then they usually end up winning at a PPV, and it's supposed to help them gain heat.

However, this is nothing new. It's been going on a long time, but I garee, it has been happening more lately. I'm not a huge fan, but it's mostly used on heels, and it's looking like it's mostly just a trend, so I can live with it.

In other times, on rare occasions when it's used to have the face lose cleanly, I really don't like it. Because that does nothing. It doesn't help the heel get over (they only really get over from losing if they lose in a dirty way) and it doesn't get heat for the heel.

So like I said, when it's used on a face, I'm not a fan AT ALL. When it's the heel losing cleanly, I know why they do it, and usually it's necessary, but I don't like when it happens to often, but can live with it.

 

[Headfirst For Hardcore]

but if the Champion doesn't lose, then the challenger wouldn't look to good either the way you're putting it. I don't have a problem with Champions losing in non-title matches, it just depends on who it is. If it's a monster heel, that would be awkward. Losing keeps things competitive, because you can't just have a champion lose every match.

Say you have a Champion and a new contender. The contender gets some sort of quick win, like a rollup. It gets him over with the crowd, and doesn't really do anything to the Champion, because it was a "surprise." So when it comes time for a Championship match, the contender won't be completely buried and still will have some credibility because of a win. This would help him transition into other feuds, keeping him fresh.

 

[seX-Power]

^ I understand but my main gripe is when a champion loses and nothing comes of it, like no feud or anything. Like maybe 1 more match next week but that's not good enough imo

 

[Headfirst For Hardcore]

^ I understand but my main gripe is when a champion loses and nothing comes of it, like no feud or anything. Like maybe 1 more match next week but that's not good enough imo

I get what you're saying. I don't see a point in it, but we don't really see it that much. The 3 examples you used in the first post were pretty good, and are the only ones I remember that were like that except for Punk's WHC Reign. But the thing with those reigns were that they were just a mess to even begin with like Mysterio's run, he was mismatched to start. and with Beth, if she kept winning, she might have become stale or too dominant, like Kong in TNA.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

Tell please when a champion has lost, in recent memory, a non title match and nothing has come out of it? (not counting Rey Mysterio).

Beth lost to Mickie James and Candice Michelle, and from both matches we got title matches. She also lost to Kelly-Kelly...via roll up...thanks to Santino, which then led to the thing in which Santino and Beth fought and Santino apparently had a mistress. Oh, and next week Beth destroyed Kelly Kelly.

Yes, Shelton lost to Helms, but it's obvious a title match is coming. Helms even said it, so I dont see your point.

 

[seX-Power]

Tell please when a champion has lost, in recent memory, a non title match and nothing has come out of it? (not counting Rey Mysterio).

Beth lost to Mickie James and Candice Michelle, and from both matches we got title matches. She also lost to Kelly-Kelly...via roll up...thanks to Santino, which then led to the thing in which Santino and Beth fought and Santino apparently had a mistress. Oh, and next week Beth destroyed Kelly Kelly.

Yes, Shelton lost to Helms, but it's obvious a title match is coming. Helms even said it, so I dont see your point.

Ok, and I see how title matches have come out of these things but they were never proper feuds that were built beyond one PPV. I am saying that even if the champs lose at first and then the opponents get a title match, they lose the title match and after about 3 weeks the feud ends with the champion definately not looking any stronger. I'm saying that the champions should only take the pinfall losses is they know something is coming out of it. Beth had all those losses yes title matches came of it, but Beth practically won those title matches next week and the whole point of her opposition winning clean was lost, as nothing came of it. Look at Shelton and Truth, they actually had a mini feud here and Truth one clean once or twice. But they never even got a true PPV match and Benjamin ended it with a clean win, and in the end, nothing came of it. Now he lost to Helms and I am almost certain that in a title match next week Shelton will win and it will all be over. Well, not certain but I wouldn't be surprised. What I am saying is that the WWE uses this formula a bit too much for my liking:

Week 1- Random guy gets clean win over champ.

Week 2- Champ beats challenger, nothing else really happens.

Maybe throw an altercation in there somewhere and it all seems so pointless, and the fact the champ lost cleanly seems unnecessary. In Rey Mysterio's case it was even worse because he didn't even get retribution against the guys that dominated him.

edit- IDK, maybe it doesn't happen as much as I think it does. But it still happens occasionally, and it really shouldn't.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

Beth had all those losses yes title matches came of it, but Beth practically won those title matches next week and the whole point of her opposition winning clean was lost

I am sorry to do so but..

Candice defeat Beth in week 1, on week 2 and 3 they met in tag matches, and in PPV (No Mercy), they met for the belt with Beth winning, and looking strong as Candice entered as the favorite.

Mickie defeated Beth in week 1. Week 2 she won the belt and then they met at Backlash in the multiperson tag match.

I'm saying that the champions should only take the pinfall losses is they know something is coming out of it.

A FEUD came out of it. It's not the companys's fault nobody cares enough for Shelton to boo him. Tell me which booker in his right state of mind would book for longer than a month a feud in which the heel doesn't get any damn reaction from the crowd.

Oh, and please tell me what the hell do you else want to come out from a feud between Shelton and R-truth that went for 2 months if not longer, got them a title match at Cyber Sunday and both spots on teams at Survivor Series and a title mnatch at SD? I can't see anything else coming out from that feud.

 

[seX-Power]

I am sorry to do so but..

Candice defeat Beth in week 1, on week 2 and 3 they met in tag matches, and in PPV (No Mercy), they met for the belt with Beth winning, and looking strong as Candice entered as the favorite.

I don't consider a bunch of matches a fued but it's women so i'll give you this one.

Mickie defeated Beth in week 1. Week 2 she won the belt and then they met at Backlash in the multiperson tag match.

Ooh, 10 diva tag match. What a climax.

A FEUD came out of it. It's not the companys's fault nobody cares enough for Shelton to boo him. Tell me which booker in his right state of mind would book for longer than a month a feud in which the heel doesn't get any damn reaction from the crowd.

That's where what I said in the other thread comes in. Get the belt off him. This way, he doesn't need to gain as much heat or be booked in proper fueds. It's just a little dissapointing that the cmap has to be booked this way.

Oh, and please tell me what the hell do you else want to come out from a feud between Shelton and R-truth that went for 2 months if not longer, got them a title match at Cyber Sunday and both spots on teams at Survivor Series and a title mnatch at SD? I can't see anything else coming out from that feud.

What would I like to come out of this feud?

Maybe having one of the workers come out of it more over and looking stronger.
Maybe actually having a promo in the fued, meaning people will care when it would end.
Maybe a proper PPV match, not a pre show, or a multiperson match where they are in the background.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

Ooh, 10 diva tag match. What a climax.

Considering Mickie and Beth:
1) Both were the teams captains
2) Had feuded before and there were no damn need for a climax
3) Meet 2 weeks later in a rematch.

That's where what I said in the other thread comes in. Get the belt off him. This way, he doesn't need to gain as much heat or be booked in proper fueds. It's just a little dissapointing that the cmap has to be booked this way.

So, you make a thead saying you are mad at how Shelton Benjamin is being booked badly and that he needs to be booked stronger, then you agree he gets no crowd reaction, and you want him to get pushed over people that actually get a reaction? Stupid, pointless, and stupid.

Maybe having one of the workers come out of it more over and looking stronger.

R-Truth did. And Shelton stayed the same. NO DAMN CROWD REACTION.

Maybe actually having a promo in the fued, meaning people will care when it would end.

Yeah, because Shelton bashing R-Truth before all his matches, telling him how he wasnt more than a criminal, doesn't count as a promo. Oh, and having angles like Shelton staring at R-Truth and walking dissapointed, and walking out of a confrontation doesnt count.

Maybe a proper PPV match, not a pre show, or a multiperson match where they are in the background.

Oh yeah, book a match in which the crowd doesn't give a shit about your heel champion...ON PPV.

 

[seX-Power]

Considering Mickie and Beth:
1) Both were the teams captains
2) Had feuded before and there were no damn need for a climax
3) Meet 2 weeks later in a rematch.

Ok fine, i'l, drop this one.

So, you make a thead saying you are mad at how Shelton Benjamin is being booked badly and that he needs to be booked stronger, then you agree he gets no crowd reaction, and you want him to get pushed over people that actually get a reaction? Stupid, pointless, and stupid.

I said that Shelton either needed to be booked stronger or LOSE THE BELT. And I didn't want him to gte pushed over those better than him, I just didn't feel the need to book him to fight against those better then him, as he will obviously lose, and that isn't a good thing for a champion.

R-Truth did. And Shelton stayed the same. NO DAMN CROWD REACTION.

He lost to Dolph Ziggler on Raw, and beat the freaking jobber MVP on Smackdown. He was as over as he is now before the Shelton feud, most of his cheers are cheap pops he gets from his entrance though anyway.

Yeah, because Shelton bashing R-Truth before all his matches, telling him how he wasnt more than a criminal, doesn't count as a promo. Oh, and having angles like Shelton staring at R-Truth and walking dissapointed, and walking out of a confrontation doesnt count.

A promo should build a feud and include interaction. I don't consider pre taped Shelton promos and a silent confrontation in the ring very good ways to build a feud.

Oh yeah, book a match in which the crowd doesn't give a shit about your heel champion...ON PPV.

I agree that he gets no reaction, and this is why he should have lost the title to R-Truth on Smackdown, as then it would benefit one person in the feud at least and all the clean wins R-Truth got wouldn't make Shelton seem like a worse champion in the end.

Overall, I'm getting impatient. Since you didn't like one of the ideas I had which was booking Shelton stronger, then why not the other one. have him lose the belt. Well, the WWE lost the perfect opportunity to do that with R-Truth but it still should be done.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

So losing the belt to R-Truth after 2 clean loses is booking him stronger. Yeah, that makes even more sense.

He lost to Dolph Ziggler on Raw, and beat the freaking jobber MVP on Smackdown. He was as over as he is now before the Shelton feud, most of his cheers are cheap pops he gets from his entrance though anyway.

He lost by count out, it seems you can't get that it isnt the same losing by count out than being pinned.

Oh, and again, R-Truth is a midcarder. He is beating and facing midcarders. He went from beating no name jobbers or Kenny Dykstra to beating MVP. It is a damn step up. He cant appear and start beating uppermidcarders.

Overall, I'm getting impatient. Since you didn't like one of the ideas I had which was booking Shelton stronger

I dont like it because at any point you have never proposed anything that makes Shelton look stronger. You are saying he should drop the belt, which would push him even more down the card, and you agree it doesnt make sense him beating talent above him on the card since he gets no reaction. So I just dont see HOW you can book him stronger.

 

[chessarmy]

A champion should look strong, but they can't be unbeatable. Plus, it makes sense for an up and comer to beat a champion so the fans think he has a chance to challenge for the belt.

 

[seX-Power]

So losing the belt to R-Truth after 2 clean loses is booking him stronger. Yeah, that makes even more sense.

Idiot, I said either book him stronger or have him lose the belt to somebody who will be able to get into better feuds.

He lost by count out, it seems you can't get that it isnt the same losing by count out than being pinned.

Wait, I'm lost... who lost by countout again?

Oh, and again, R-Truth is a midcarder. He is beating and facing midcarders. He went from beating no name jobbers or Kenny Dykstra to beating MVP. It is a damn step up. He cant appear and start beating uppermidcarders.

MVC beat MVP. Puh-lease.

I dont like it because at any point you have never proposed anything that makes Shelton look stronger. You are saying he should drop the belt, which would push him even more down the card, and you agree it doesnt make sense him beating talent above him on the card since he gets no reaction. So I just dont see HOW you can book him stronger.

I am not saying he be booked stronger, I am saying that the champion on Smackdown should be booked stronger. By booked stronger I mean being involved in hot feuds that make either man benefit. If Shelton can't do that then by all means take the belt off him. I was talking about having the United States Champion booked stronger as well... it's he champion. Shelton was an example. I hope we're on the same page now.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

MVC beat MVP. Puh-lease.

MVC=midcarder
R-truth= midcarder.

Your point?

I am not saying he be booked stronger, I am saying that the champion on Smackdown should be booked stronger. By booked stronger I mean being involved in hot feuds that make either man benefit. If Shelton can't do that then by all means take the belt off him. I was talking about having the United States Champion booked stronger as well... it's he champion. Shelton was an example. I hope we're on the same page now

So we should take your thread about how WWE should push Shelton Benjamin and how he deserves better, complete spam.